This engaging episode delves into the nuanced world of socializing as a highly sensitive person (HSP). Drs. Amelia Kelley and Jeanne share valuable insights and strategies, navigating the challenges that come with being an HSP.
The conversation unfolds to explore different approaches to socializing, striking a delicate balance between extroversion and introversion.
Key Takeaways:
Dr.Jeanne
Okay. Hello everyone. I'm Jean, the founder of Figgi Life and Beauty, and we specialize in gentle skincare for sensitive souls like me. I am an access overachiever with panic disorder, and I am the co -host of the sensitivity doctors.
Dr. Amelia Kelley
Hello, I'm Dr. Amelia Kelly. I am an author, podcaster, and therapist. I've been working in the trauma -focused field for nearly 20 years now, and I love anything related to mental health and empowerment, which is why I'm so excited to be here today talking to you on our podcast.
Dr.Jeanne And we have a really interesting one today as well. We're talking about socializing as an HSP. So probably you should maybe go back in our episodes. If you didn't watch the episode on super friends and making friends as an HSP, it may be worth it to first watch that one or to go and watch that one directly after you watch this episode. So this is a cool one for me because I find myself in a really weird spectrum with this one.
Um, and I would be so interested to see where you fall. So socializing as an HSP, just to put it in perspective and give a little bit of framework. We're talking about kind of social events, networking, uh, that wedding that you've been dreading to go to the family gatherings, meeting new people at a barbecue. Maybe you're going to a friend's house and there's a whole bunch of new people that you need to meet. That's, that's the kind of direction we're flowing into.
Dr. Amelia Kelley
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (01:39.768)
Mm -hmm
Dr. Amelia Kelley (01:51.254)
Mm -hmm, absolutely. It's funny, I had different reactions to each as I was imagining.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (01:56.057)
Did it go from really good to worse worse worse worse worse or did it go the other way around or all sorts?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:04.654)
I think it just kind of bounced around as I envisioned the different scenarios, for sure.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (02:11.417)
Yeah, I'd be curious to know how do you do those differently professionally and personally? Because you're an HSP, but you're on the sensation seeking scale. So do you like events like networking type events or formal type of professional events where you don't really know too many of the people there, but you're kind of professionally obligated to mingle and to socialize? Are you into that?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:22.006)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:36.462)
Right.
Not really, which is funny because I am so social. So if it's a shared interest and I'm going to an event and everyone's there to learn something, like if it's a training or something like that, I don't mind. But the funny thing is when I think about it, I think anyone who's ever met me in a training probably thinks that while I do ask quite a few questions, I'm not...
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (02:41.529)
I'm going to go to bed.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:07.182)
I'm not there to make a bunch of friends or to become super connected to anyone. So I kind of go into this different space. This, this I'm just here receiving information. So when I think about networking, just the thought of networking, I have never been to a networking event. Never.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (03:17.177)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (03:29.017)
Really? Lucky you.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:32.598)
Never. And it's funny because there's a lot of opportunities. There's a lot of really neat communities of, you know, therapists or, but I just, I feel like unless we're genuinely connecting on a personal level, I have a little bit of a difficulty staying interested.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (03:51.641)
Okay, so it's more about not being interested in the conversation or staying interested than it is about kind of shyness and introvertedness and kind of that fear of not speaking to people, right?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:04.448)
Yes.
Yes, for me it's, and we might have two totally different experiences with this. For me, it's the lack of emotional investment. And because with highly sensitive people, one of the things that means a lot to us is meaningful connection and intimacy. And in those scenarios, I even struggle with, I've never joined like a mom's group or anything like that.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (04:15.895)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (04:25.465)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (04:33.369)
Yeah, me either.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:34.862)
Yeah, because for me, I feel like the only reason we're here is because we're all moms. And what if that's like not enough to connect on? I'd rather spend time with people that I can kind of get to those deeper level, not to say that you can't. I mean, honestly, mom groups are amazing and they're a wonderful way to meet like minded people. But for me, the initial stage of the small talk is,
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (04:43.257)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (05:03.193)
Oh yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:04.686)
And it's not that it makes me nervous, it just kind of doesn't interest me, I guess.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (05:11.385)
Yeah, no, I can understand that. For me, I'm kind of in a weird spectrum here because of my previous life, I did a lot of mentoring and I wrote a lot of projects and implemented them. And a huge part of these human rights projects was working with the people and getting the people to be excited about it and interested in it. So I would obviously have a lot of people that always came to me like, we would never guess you're an introvert.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:22.06)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:31.276)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (05:40.569)
You're so social, you're so outgoing. But the thing is, like you said, I go into a different persona because I know this is what is needed from me professionally right now. And in many of those situations, I was kind of the leader to get everybody else to connect and to socialize and to share and to take the project forward. So I have to be that. And I show up as that and I'm...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:46.766)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:50.51)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:58.06)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:04.174)
Right.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (06:07.705)
I do it really well because I'm very good at kind of judging the room and feeling the energy in the room and seeing if people are interested or not and changing the way I educate or the way I deliver the message. But it's equally destructive to me because I go into a really deep seclusion and hibernation after that, that I don't want to see anybody. I don't want to talk to anybody. And I go to the complete opposite scale personally.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:15.67)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:28.172)
Hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (06:35.927)
I'm in personal relationships because I don't feel like there's this need for me to have to do it. And it's not where I feel naturally comfortable.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:36.076)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:41.934)
Right.
Right. I think that's common with highly sensitive people in general, whether you're a high sensation seeker or not to need the decompression time. I almost have a pre compression time in a way. Yes. So even though I love throwing parties, I think we had chatted about in our last episode that I was throwing a small gathering for Superbowl, which turned into like 20 people.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (06:54.401)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (06:59.353)
Really? That's interesting.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:10.297)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:13.294)
And the hour or so leading up, like I always feel like I have to have everything ready really early in the day so that the hour to two leading up to a social event, I can completely be by myself, almost like hibernate.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:30.679)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:30.874)
Sometimes I'll take a bath or I'll lay down or I for a really big event. Sometimes I even have to pop a couple ibuprofen. I know that might sound kind of crazy, but it's like I need to get my nervous system relaxed in the right space. But then as soon as that first person walks in, I'm on.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:39.673)
Ha ha ha ha!
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:44.377)
Yeah, in the right space, on the right level.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:52.825)
Wow, that's amazing. I'm the other way around. I like the after because I spend all of my energy getting jived up and jazzed up. We're talking about the professional space now because I have to be really on and really motivating. And then after I go into like, okay, nobody needs this from me anymore. I just want to get rid of all of this energy. I don't want it to be a part of me anymore.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:54.21)
It's very weird.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:06.316)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:19.404)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (08:21.145)
I just need me, myself and silence. And I don't need like an hour or two, like a week, like no people, nothing. Oh yeah, for sure.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:32.334)
You need more than an hour or two, you're saying? So I think that's so interesting because I need the pre and post care, so to speak. I need the pre compression where I'm kind of deescalating before. And then I don't need it immediately after, but I feel a shift in my energy once the last person leaves or once the last dish is cleaned or whatever it is.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (08:42.017)
Yeah?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (08:58.009)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:58.796)
And you know, it's interesting. Sometimes if I feel like I've had enough with the socializing, I will start cleaning because it pulls me away from having to mask.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (09:08.569)
Oh, I so do that too. I do that too. I start washing the dishes or packing the dishwasher.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:11.758)
Yeah. Yep. Mm hmm. Yes. And you know, it's interesting. I think I had mentioned in that other episode where I was getting a phone call request at 10 o 'clock at night. I can't do I can text all day long. I can text an email. It doesn't drain me. It's like such a quick thing for me. But phone calls or in person demands a little bit of masking.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (09:26.775)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (09:41.111)
Hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:42.414)
And so even the phone, your tone of voice demands a little masking. So I think depending on my energy level, it depends on whether I'm up for it, so to speak. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (09:52.249)
Yeah, that makes sense for sure. And in a personal setting, do you feel like you do it differently? Obviously you said you haven't been to networking events and you feel like the interest doesn't hold you because there isn't that emotional connection. So I would think in a personal or more like private and intimate gathering, that wouldn't be an issue for you socializing and being more extroverted.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:06.998)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:17.006)
No, I enjoy meeting new people. It's I think it's one of the things I honestly like about podcasting too, is getting to meet and talk to all different people from everywhere. It's part of my job too. I mean, I meet new people all the time being a therapist. However,
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (10:24.535)
Mm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:37.902)
I tend to work with my clients very long -term. I just had a client graduate yesterday and we were looking back at his, you know, when was the last, when was the first time we met and we both were thinking it had been two years and it had been five. And that's not abnormal for me. So I'll get really to like that deeper level. And I think that's the high sensitivity piece, whereas HSPs we, we really do.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (10:55.161)
Oh wow, okay. Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:07.79)
like I said, crave that depth. But I will say when I have a brand new client coming in, I get a little twinge of, I don't want to say anxiety, but kind of anticipation of how's it going to go? Are we going to click? And then within the first five minutes, usually it feels like it's that that has released. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (11:10.433)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (11:30.105)
It's okay. And it's jelling. Yeah. I think one of the things that are, it's also kind of difficult for HSPs in terms of social settings is, you know, it feels so kind of rudimental and high school, but that initial kind of making the first move, saying the first thing when there's this group of people that you don't know, for example, the barbecue you get invited to, and there's this whole bunch of friends that you don't know. And.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:48.61)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:53.134)
Mm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (11:59.609)
how you navigate that or handle that. I for sure have come up with some strategies over the years because it's just not a situation I feel comfortable in, but I'd love to know how you navigate that.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (12:08.684)
Right.
Well, I think it depends. So it's interesting you bring this up because this Saturday I'm going to a neighbor's birthday party and because I very much value my space in my home, I'm usually not the first person that's going to become super tight with my neighbors as social as I am. So we've just kind of naturally gotten to know each other a little bit. I don't know. I think I know two people going to this party. And if I knew more people,
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (12:29.803)
Hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (12:41.36)
I think I would just go on my own but we're scrambling to find a babysitter because I want my husband to come with me because I don't know people and not I think it would depend on the group this group tends they're a little bit older than me they're not like we're not in the same kind of stage of life and so I think because I don't feel those commonalities I want like a
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (12:48.535)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (13:04.654)
Like an anchor. Yeah, like a person to be with me. Yeah. So I think it depends on like if you feel the comfort level you feel with the people just do you have a shared interest? Do you have a shared commonality? I think that can make a big difference too. So I think if you think of it that way, maybe one of the copay mechanisms is consciously trying to find a commonality.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (13:04.921)
A backup plan.
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (13:15.449)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (13:33.048)
find a shared interest. And so it's a very, I had a stint of two years of being a guidance counselor at an elementary school when I was getting licensed, which is very random. And we were teaching kids how to ask questions, learn about each other, find common ground. And I think we can almost take something from that, that it's...
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (13:34.073)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:00.558)
maybe just finding that common ground, it's okay to ask the deep questions early on.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (14:05.849)
That's actually one of my coping strategies. Like the first one is I don't go to social personal social engagements alone because I know I don't feel comfortable with that. My husband is, I wouldn't say he's an extrovert, but he can more easily strike up a conversation than I can. And I'm okay to take part in the conversation once kind of the initial groundwork has been laid. So.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:17.452)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:27.798)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:33.486)
Right.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (14:34.649)
That for me is a great, great way to feel a little bit more comfortable. And the second thing I do is if I'm meeting somebody for the first time or I'm in this kind of situation and I'm kind of fearful or anxious about making the first move and being the first one to initiate the conversation, I tend to always ask about them because I am genuinely interested. But it also I've learned.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:39.054)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:57.974)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (15:03.993)
is probably the easiest way for me to find that kind of commonality with somebody. Like, and you know, what do you do? Do you have kids? You know, you start with kind of the easy things and it kind of leads into the big things many times. And you learn things about people that you never...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:09.58)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:20.182)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (15:25.017)
I think would have known if you didn't ask these questions and it does create kind of an in when you feel a little anxious.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:26.956)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:34.382)
Can I ask you how often do you then share your own answers to those kind of questions?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (15:42.041)
This is the curious thing because have you ever noticed that people don't ask back?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:47.31)
Yeah, I don't know if it's just not a natural flow. Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (15:51.353)
Maybe. But that's okay for me. People love talking about themselves. And as long as that gets the conversation going, then fine, that's fine by me. But if they were to ask me, I would definitely reply. I mean, I'm not going to share my life story with them the first time I meet them. But if they were to ask me like, how many kids you have? Where do you live? What do do for a living? I don't mind having those conversations.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:57.006)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:05.76)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:10.318)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:18.414)
I think we just pinpointed something that deepens a conversation beyond small talk though. So if, for instance, you and I were meeting for the first time and I said, oh, do you have kids? And you shared about your daughter. And then I responded in kind with, oh, well, actually I also have kids. And then we're rolling. We've got this shared, I think that shared commonality piece, that's where more depth comes.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (16:25.623)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (16:39.193)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (16:47.225)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:48.32)
from so I wonder if there's something to offering up your answer to your own question.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (16:55.001)
Yeah, for sure. But also like being prepared. I think as HSPs, we sometimes tend to take things really personally and we live in our minds a lot. And just to also kind of pre, I try to pre -prepare myself for a situation where somebody just may not be forthcoming or just don't want to talk to you and to not kind of feel offended by that, because that's really hard for me. I would take that really personally and I feel like the person is just being mean, but just...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:03.062)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:17.102)
Right. Right. Right. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (17:24.889)
kind of preparing yourself for those kinds of situations. Because I think that's what also makes it difficult for HSP to socialize. Or for me at least, you can kind of feel the energy in the room. Like I would be very sensitive to people's moods. For example, if I walk into a party, I don't know anybody and I try to speak with somebody, I would feel this person is annoyed or...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:29.142)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:39.638)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:46.414)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (17:52.985)
this person doesn't want to be here, or I don't think this person likes me. And, you know, it's not going into the conversation of trying to put thoughts into somebody's mind or thinking what they're thinking. It's just, we do tend to feel these things as HSPs. So now you're already nervous because you're in the situation. You're feeling all of these emotions and moods and everything makes you even more anxious because now you go into the zone of, Oh, I need to fix this.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:57.196)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:06.592)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:17.452)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (18:20.377)
I need to make everybody comfortable. I need to see that this is working out for everybody. And you can just see how that all snowballs.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:20.598)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:28.59)
funny, it makes me think of when I go into a party or a space, and maybe one where I'm not hosting, but I could have an impact. Like if I go over to my dad and stepmom's house, I always am like, where's the music? Can we turn the music on? It's like, I feel like we need that in the space. However, I wouldn't do that if I was in just a general space.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (18:42.391)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (18:46.321)
Yeah
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:54.414)
But you said something that I think is so important. And it's about the fact that HSPs, we really do absorb, we truly, this is not just anecdotal, we truly absorb other people's moods because our mirror neurons are more active in our brain. And so the proximity that you have to someone in the room makes a difference. And so how this can be a useful coping skill if you go into a room.
and you're feeling the energy that there's maybe for me, it's if it's there's a really aggressive communicator, not passionate. I like passionate, but someone who's really pushy about their feelings makes me feel very tense. I don't, it's, it's, I don't like it. I feel like I want to barrier myself to it. Remember that if you're in a space, whoever you're physically closest to can have an impact.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (19:35.897)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (19:39.993)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (19:51.097)
Okay, that I can that is so true. That's for sure true for me. Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (19:52.428)
Right?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (19:57.056)
Mm -hmm. So moving yourself if you can to a space to someone maybe even another HSP we can pick each other out if you really start to notice the little nuances maybe the person who is Having a one -on -one conversation about something meaningful and they have kept the conversation going for a while and they don't
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (20:06.391)
Mmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (20:20.45)
participate in some of the other activities that might be your person, you know, and striking up something with that. Or if you feel drawn to someone's energy, go even standing near them and see what organically comes up. It might end up feeling more comfortable than trying to grit and bear the overzealous communicator, for instance.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (20:24.311)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (20:41.721)
Yeah, I also like to retreat a little bit and I've learned to do this over the years. I used to feel so bad about it because I used to think that if you're social, you need to be social, you can't be rude. But I do that now. If I feel overwhelmed in those situations, I excuse myself, I go to the bathroom or I go outside or I go fetch something in the car. And I just take those five minutes to just breathe.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (20:45.344)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (20:49.878)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:01.772)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:08.238)
Yup. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (21:09.273)
regroup, think about anything else. Maybe I, you know, say a few, maybe I do like a grounding exercise. Maybe I listen to two minutes of my news podcast, whatever, whatever it is. Maybe I just sit there and I feel so much better when I go back. I need those moments because those moments are my sanity in situations like that so that I don't overthink situations and I don't get too overwhelmed with everybody's emotions and moods and.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:21.632)
Mm hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:27.382)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:37.23)
Right.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (21:37.433)
head into that space of, ooh, I think I know what you're thinking.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:42.35)
Yes. And I love that you use the word grounding too, because there are opportunities. I'm not doing it now because I genuinely need my black tea right now, but drinking. And this is, this kind of brings up a double edged sword. It might also be why someone who's highly sensitive might find that they lean into things like overuse of alcohol and social situations to feel more comfortable because not only can it, you know, dull the insecurities or
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (22:05.335)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (22:12.256)
or take down some of those social barriers, there's an action with your hands and your mouth. If any of our listeners want to look up the homunculus man, have you ever heard of the homunculus man? It's a rendering of our cortical brain and how our cortex has more neural connectivity in our hands and our mouth and our tongue than anywhere in the whole entire body.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (22:24.825)
Mm -hmm. No.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (22:40.014)
And so when we regulate, we're most often regulating with our hands in our mouth. And so if you're in a scenario where you're feeling a little uneasy, it might be a good idea, I'm reaching for my other beverage, to have a glass of water. You know, have something that you can physically hold, you can feel, you can ground yourself into, you can continue to have that connection, hydrate. And then to your point, more bathroom breaks to be by yourself.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (22:44.855)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (22:55.961)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (23:03.737)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (23:08.729)
Yeah, and it's so, for me, it really saves me, but I've also learned to avoid getting into those situations in the first place. Like, I know I don't do well in overwhelming situations with many people. So if I get invited to something and I know it's gonna be like a huge party with many people, I decline. I just won't go. And if it's just an intimate gathering with a couple of people,
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:13.228)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:23.148)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:29.782)
Hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (23:36.377)
That's fine for me. And my friends have kind of come to know me as such, like they don't invite us really for big gatherings. I don't find that offensive. I see that as a huge thank you, you know, because I prefer to rather spend intimate time and just be a couple of people that I can energetically and emotionally handle. You know, so I just don't, I try not to get, I try to just...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:50.262)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:58.606)
Right. Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (24:04.217)
And this was something that I learned the hard ways, trying to recognize, accept and live according to your limitations because it's okay to have limitations. It's actually better for you to understand those. And that's definitely one of my limitations. And that, I mean, just saying that feels like I'm already feeling so relieved.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:14.348)
Mm -hmm.
Absolutely.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:28.846)
That's awesome. It's so funny because this is what I love so much about our sensitivities because they're so polarizing. When it comes to socializing, unless I am with a really, really, really good friend, someone I feel very connected to, the less people there are, the more overwhelmed I feel.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (24:39.737)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (24:54.393)
Oh really? No... Yeah, please do.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:55.63)
Yes, and I'm gonna unpack this for you, okay? So when there's a small, small group, I am so keenly aware of your energy and how you're feeling. Although I do prefer one -on -one counseling, so that's kind of this other part of my brain, but I'm more conscientious of filling the space, making sure the conversation is going. I know that I really need to kind of attend.
Whereas as you add more people, it diffuses the energy and I feel like, oh, you got that person. Oh, you're okay. You guys are talking. Like it's this, I'm always aware of people are having a good time, but the more people there are, it almost feels like the less responsibility on myself, unless I am in a room full of introverts. I will never be more exhausted.
than if I'm in a room full of full full of introverts, because then I feel this need to raise the energy to help the room and and really bring my extrovert energy. So I appreciate when there's other extroverts around to take some of the burden off of me. And I know this is all subconscious. This is all like HSP energy going. No one needs me to do this.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (25:59.929)
and be the extrovert, yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (26:17.463)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:18.87)
No one demands that I do this, but I subconsciously do this.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (26:22.969)
Well, your HSP does demand you to do it. That's the thing, right? So for me, on the other hand is again, I feel overwhelmed with the many people because I feel all of these energies are so overwhelming and all of these moods. And whereas it's a smaller group, I feel like I'm much better able to be.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:25.526)
Right, good point.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:38.284)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (26:45.145)
Oh, okay, I see you. I can kind of dissect this. I can work with this. I can give attention to this and I can make this work for an hour or two. Whereas if it's like a whole big group of people, it's weird how we see that differently and how you have to understand like what it is that you need.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:48.674)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:56.982)
Mm -hmm.
I know.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:05.694)
Absolutely.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (27:07.449)
But it's also like dating a little bit because I've just as you were speaking, I was thinking now about the last couple of years and we've never, we've been in a situation where we've had to make a lot of new friends and had to be like the extroverts to try because we are the foreigners here. Like we're the weird ones, the odd ones out, you know? Yeah. So, and we never make friends with anybody unless we've,
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:14.838)
Thank you.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:22.508)
Mm -hmm. Right. Special.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (27:36.953)
gone through the dating protocol, like we'll never invite somebody to our house first, or go for dinner. Like you first go for coffee, because coffee is only 30 minutes. And then if you connect, you go for dinner, because dinner can be like an hour or two. And then if it works out, you can come over to my house for a barbecue, you know, like.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:44.398)
Right? Less pressure.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:59.02)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (28:00.665)
I think we're so rushed in life and there's this kind of manual of how you're supposed to do things and I just don't think the manual necessarily works for HSBs.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (28:10.766)
I agree. I think that, oh, and you know, I think about too, if we dissect the difference for HSPs versus, you know, non HSPs are low sensitives in a social setting. One of the most helpful.
cognitive shifts I've ever had based on something I read was to remind myself in the social setting that only 20 to 25 percent of the people in this room are HSPs based on statistics unless you're like me and I gravitate towards neuro diverse people but
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (28:40.545)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (28:46.638)
And so not everyone in the room thinks as deeply as I do. Not everyone is hyper analyzing the scenario or these feelings or this moment because we as HSPs tend to project our moral compass onto others. And if we let ourself go, if I say, are you doing okay? And the person says, yeah, but they seem a little off. Maybe they really are just okay. Maybe they are.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (28:50.519)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (29:00.865)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (29:13.099)
Yeah, that could be, but my brain would go like, okay, so he or she needs a little bit of extra attention. Maybe something has gone wrong. Maybe I can do something to make them more comfortable. Like your brain just goes crazy in those situations. Again, why I avoid having too many of those situations at once, rather dealing with it one or two at a time.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:25.964)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:35.662)
Right.
Do you ever think those same things about yourself?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (29:43.961)
How do you mean?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:45.676)
Am I okay right now? Do I need any extra attention? Do I like the same, these really beautiful, compassionate things.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (29:50.329)
Oh, I never used to. But since I started kind of my healing journey after my diagnosis, I've learned to do it a lot more. It's actually been one of the biggest, I think, aids towards getting onto a path of managing my panic a lot better.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:05.558)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:18.476)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (30:18.617)
is being able to check in with myself. Like, what do I need right now? Am I good? Am I okay? It sounds so kind of probably silly or rudimental, but just being able to recognize, well, no, my tummy actually feels quite crampy and icky. And I'm feeling that way because my heart's also kind of beating kind of fast. I'm a little bit stressed. Maybe I'm not okay in this moment. Go for a bike ride, walk around.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:37.1)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:45.038)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (30:48.131)
in the woods or whatever. So I didn't I didn't used to do that, but I do it a lot more now.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:53.036)
Mm -hmm.
What about in a social setting? Because you were saying you can have those beautiful self -compassionate thoughts and go bring yourself to do something alone. And I think about our high sensitive listeners or even just introverts or people who just have insecurity about, you can have social anxiety and not be an HSP too. So this can also kind of extend to other folks who struggle sometimes socially. What about those same check -ins when you're in a social setting?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (31:01.495)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (31:15.063)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (31:25.056)
setting. Are you apt to do that?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (31:27.225)
Yeah, I think I do those pretty well, hence the moments to break away and be alone because I definitely then do not feel okay. But I would say that, you know, having a good support structure is so important. And, you know, through all of this, through this whole journey,
Dr. Amelia Kelley (31:31.542)
Mm -hmm.
Oh, right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (31:44.79)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (31:53.241)
My husband and I have become very in tuned with one another and he's become very tuned with my needs. And when I start to maybe not look as well. So my first call would be, okay, I'm not feeling okay. Go out for a moment alone. He would probably realize that and ask me, are you okay? Are you okay to stay? Would you like to go? I'm okay. Let's do this. And the next time round, he would be in an intuitive space enough.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:14.878)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (32:21.465)
to be able to come to me and say, okay, you know what? And what I love about that is he'll never say something like, I can see you can't handle this, or I see this is stressing you out. He'll go like, I'm tired, let's get going. This has been enough. Like we don't need to be here. And that's such a rescue to me because I am, and I will admit that, only capable of looking after myself and asking these questions to such a point.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:30.574)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:34.254)
I love that.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:48.654)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (32:48.729)
And then I really do need intervention from some kind of support network. It's just so important.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:51.534)
Right. Mm -hmm.
You just gave me such a fun idea that I think would be so neat to do. I would love to meet, look at me, this is me being the social, like social butterfly wanting to meet people. I would love to meet your husband. I think it would be so interesting to do an episode about support networks or relationships or something, and for us to have our husbands on.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (33:00.759)
Ha ha ha.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (33:14.489)
Ha ha.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (33:21.625)
Oh, that would be so cool, but maybe I should just have like contract written in stone with you that you would not judge me too harshly. My husband is the most beautiful human being, but he is an incredible straight shooter and he offends a lot of people. But I mean, I think obviously he's brilliant. So I'm super game for that. He actually did come on for an episode on the old podcast on MyFiggiLife.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (33:36.11)
Ooh, it'll be a good episode.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (33:43.822)
Yeah, that would be fun. Uh -huh.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (33:50.713)
And he talked, we talked about my diagnosis with panic disorder and how we, as a couple kind of navigated through that and all the things we didn't know and understand and how we got to a point of communicating with each other and sending these signals. I think I told you about the code words we use like stress, anxiety, panic, but just how we kind of navigated that through that journey and how it feels to be on the other side of this.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (33:54.55)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:09.238)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:13.742)
That's cool.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (34:19.929)
point, how does it feel to be the person who is the support system, not the patient, because it can be exhausting and very draining for them as well.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:20.726)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:30.936)
Yeah, let me know what episode that is. I'd love to watch it or listen to it.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (34:34.489)
Oh yeah, sure. I'll let you know. So in terms of thinking about the social settings, I think it's kind of strange for us HSPs to be able to have a cut and dry solution that works for us. I think it's really something you have to feel your way through and test it. Does this work for me? Does it feel good? Doesn't it feel good?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:57.428)
Agreed.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:02.988)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (35:03.129)
And also to know when to just extricate yourself from situations. I'm sure that doesn't work for everybody, but the example I gave is I just don't attend big gatherings. I don't feel comfortable there. And I just don't do that to myself.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:11.022)
Yes.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:17.71)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:21.198)
Right, just like you don't attend big gatherings, I don't attend networking events or things where there's going to be extreme levels of small talk. And, you know, also, I think respecting that even based on the research, it says that HSPs need an average of two hours per day of unstructured alone time.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (35:25.825)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (35:30.807)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (35:45.249)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:45.934)
Meaning you're not doing work. You could be doing work if it's work that's fun and invigorating, but just open two hours a day. Sometimes it's hard to get all of that at once, but I think normalizing and knowing that it makes sense to have an energy hangover the next day after a big event or, or even remember I was saying that the pre the pre -con pre decompression, I did not sleep. I
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:03.737)
Oh yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:11.223)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:15.84)
wish I had planned for this better, maybe even honestly spoken to my doctor. I actually did not sleep the night before my wedding.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:25.273)
Wow, okay.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:26.722)
I had my two, my maid and matron of honor in the like suite with me, we're having a little girl sleep over. I was up the entire night.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:38.521)
Oh wow, I would have been dead on my feet.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:41.102)
It was luckily my adrenaline got me going back up, but that morning I did not feel okay. And I, you know, I did baseline things like melatonin. I wish I honestly wish I could go back in time and tell my little self like, go do something to plan for this. So thinking about how it's, it was normal when I looked back and I didn't know what an HSP was then. I didn't understand what I know now. I wish I knew what I know now.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:57.913)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (37:08.087)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:08.91)
I could have understood that there was no space to have that quiet alone time. And it's okay and normal to feel that way sometimes as an HSP or to feel that ever. And it's okay and normal on the tail end to need that decompression and to have, as I was saying, that emotional or energy hangover after it's normal. It's not abnormal. It's part of being an HSP.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (37:17.623)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (37:34.009)
Beautiful. And I think that's the perfect way to end the episode actually. Such a beautiful message. And also to share with our listeners, what are you celebrating today, especially now as we're talking about HSP socializing and other people and their energies.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:38.956)
Hehehehe.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:52.174)
Hmm. You know, I'm actually celebrating that I've had this amazing opportunity to create something really beautiful with Gina Cavalier, who we're going to have on at some point. And I think we secured an awesome publicist who I loved who believes in our mission. And so I'm really excited for the work. I love working with strong, powerful women. And so I'm really excited about all that, which we will certainly share all about on the podcast. Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (38:02.553)
Oh yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (38:18.841)
Oh, wonderful. That's wonderful. I'm so well today I'm celebrating that so many elements of my job can be so challenging sometimes, but then things like today happen and I'm so grateful for the environment I work in because I do make my own hours and I can move things around if I absolutely need to. And I got a call like an hour before our podcast started saying my little girl was sick and she had a tummy ache.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:21.738)
What about you?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:30.272)
Hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:47.854)
Oh no.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (38:47.961)
And I didn't need to ask anybody for leave or explain. Like I could just go get her and I could bring her home and we could figure it out. So I'm definitely celebrating that today.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:53.262)
Great.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:57.838)
Yes, yes, I love how you and I being in different places of the world or having completely different experiences right before we film. I was sleeping.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (39:04.505)
Yeah, true, true, true. Like you're just getting up. And she had half a day at summer or winter camp or whatever.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (39:14.798)
Yeah, I was ramming.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (39:18.521)
And that's true. Okay. So please be sure to join us next time on the sensitivity doctors. We have loads of great episodes still coming up and don't be afraid to send us your questions and comments. We'd love to know what you think. Please don't be shy to tell us what you want us to talk about or questions you want us to answer. We love connecting with the community and we hope to see you again next time. Bye.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (39:41.71)
Bye.Dr. Dr. Jeanne (00:15.833)
Okay. Hello everyone. I'm Jean, the founder of Figgi Life and Beauty, and we specialize in gentle skincare for sensitive souls like me. I am an access overachiever with panic disorder, and I am the co -host of the sensitivity doctors.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (00:33.39)
Hello, I'm Dr. Amelia Kelly. I am an author, podcaster, and therapist. I've been working in the trauma -focused field for nearly 20 years now, and I love anything related to mental health and empowerment, which is why I'm so excited to be here today talking to you on our podcast.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (00:55.001)
And we have a really interesting one today as well. We're talking about socializing as an HSP. So probably you should maybe go back in our episodes. If you didn't watch the episode on super friends and making friends as an HSP, it may be worth it to first watch that one or to go and watch that one directly after you watch this episode. So this is a cool one for me because I find myself in a really weird spectrum with this one.
Um, and I would be so interested to see where you fall. So socializing as an HSP, just to put it in perspective and give a little bit of framework. We're talking about kind of social events, networking, uh, that wedding that you've been dreading to go to the family gatherings, meeting new people at a barbecue. Maybe you're going to a friend's house and there's a whole bunch of new people that you need to meet. That's, that's the kind of direction we're flowing into.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (01:23.83)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (01:39.768)
Mm -hmm
Dr. Amelia Kelley (01:51.254)
Mm -hmm, absolutely. It's funny, I had different reactions to each as I was imagining.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (01:56.057)
Did it go from really good to worse worse worse worse worse or did it go the other way around or all sorts?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:04.654)
I think it just kind of bounced around as I envisioned the different scenarios, for sure.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (02:11.417)
Yeah, I'd be curious to know how do you do those differently professionally and personally? Because you're an HSP, but you're on the sensation seeking scale. So do you like events like networking type events or formal type of professional events where you don't really know too many of the people there, but you're kind of professionally obligated to mingle and to socialize? Are you into that?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:22.006)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:36.462)
Right.
Not really, which is funny because I am so social. So if it's a shared interest and I'm going to an event and everyone's there to learn something, like if it's a training or something like that, I don't mind. But the funny thing is when I think about it, I think anyone who's ever met me in a training probably thinks that while I do ask quite a few questions, I'm not...
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (02:41.529)
I'm going to go to bed.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:07.182)
I'm not there to make a bunch of friends or to become super connected to anyone. So I kind of go into this different space. This, this I'm just here receiving information. So when I think about networking, just the thought of networking, I have never been to a networking event. Never.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (03:17.177)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (03:29.017)
Really? Lucky you.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:32.598)
Never. And it's funny because there's a lot of opportunities. There's a lot of really neat communities of, you know, therapists or, but I just, I feel like unless we're genuinely connecting on a personal level, I have a little bit of a difficulty staying interested.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (03:51.641)
Okay, so it's more about not being interested in the conversation or staying interested than it is about kind of shyness and introvertedness and kind of that fear of not speaking to people, right?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:04.448)
Yes.
Yes, for me it's, and we might have two totally different experiences with this. For me, it's the lack of emotional investment. And because with highly sensitive people, one of the things that means a lot to us is meaningful connection and intimacy. And in those scenarios, I even struggle with, I've never joined like a mom's group or anything like that.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (04:15.895)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (04:25.465)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (04:33.369)
Yeah, me either.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:34.862)
Yeah, because for me, I feel like the only reason we're here is because we're all moms. And what if that's like not enough to connect on? I'd rather spend time with people that I can kind of get to those deeper level, not to say that you can't. I mean, honestly, mom groups are amazing and they're a wonderful way to meet like minded people. But for me, the initial stage of the small talk is,
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (04:43.257)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (05:03.193)
Oh yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:04.686)
And it's not that it makes me nervous, it just kind of doesn't interest me, I guess.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (05:11.385)
Yeah, no, I can understand that. For me, I'm kind of in a weird spectrum here because of my previous life, I did a lot of mentoring and I wrote a lot of projects and implemented them. And a huge part of these human rights projects was working with the people and getting the people to be excited about it and interested in it. So I would obviously have a lot of people that always came to me like, we would never guess you're an introvert.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:22.06)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:31.276)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (05:40.569)
You're so social, you're so outgoing. But the thing is, like you said, I go into a different persona because I know this is what is needed from me professionally right now. And in many of those situations, I was kind of the leader to get everybody else to connect and to socialize and to share and to take the project forward. So I have to be that. And I show up as that and I'm...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:46.766)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:50.51)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:58.06)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:04.174)
Right.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (06:07.705)
I do it really well because I'm very good at kind of judging the room and feeling the energy in the room and seeing if people are interested or not and changing the way I educate or the way I deliver the message. But it's equally destructive to me because I go into a really deep seclusion and hibernation after that, that I don't want to see anybody. I don't want to talk to anybody. And I go to the complete opposite scale personally.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:15.67)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:28.172)
Hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (06:35.927)
I'm in personal relationships because I don't feel like there's this need for me to have to do it. And it's not where I feel naturally comfortable.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:36.076)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:41.934)
Right.
Right. I think that's common with highly sensitive people in general, whether you're a high sensation seeker or not to need the decompression time. I almost have a pre compression time in a way. Yes. So even though I love throwing parties, I think we had chatted about in our last episode that I was throwing a small gathering for Superbowl, which turned into like 20 people.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (06:54.401)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (06:59.353)
Really? That's interesting.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:10.297)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:13.294)
And the hour or so leading up, like I always feel like I have to have everything ready really early in the day so that the hour to two leading up to a social event, I can completely be by myself, almost like hibernate.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:30.679)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:30.874)
Sometimes I'll take a bath or I'll lay down or I for a really big event. Sometimes I even have to pop a couple ibuprofen. I know that might sound kind of crazy, but it's like I need to get my nervous system relaxed in the right space. But then as soon as that first person walks in, I'm on.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:39.673)
Ha ha ha ha!
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:44.377)
Yeah, in the right space, on the right level.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (07:52.825)
Wow, that's amazing. I'm the other way around. I like the after because I spend all of my energy getting jived up and jazzed up. We're talking about the professional space now because I have to be really on and really motivating. And then after I go into like, okay, nobody needs this from me anymore. I just want to get rid of all of this energy. I don't want it to be a part of me anymore.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:54.21)
It's very weird.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:06.316)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:19.404)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (08:21.145)
I just need me, myself and silence. And I don't need like an hour or two, like a week, like no people, nothing. Oh yeah, for sure.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:32.334)
You need more than an hour or two, you're saying? So I think that's so interesting because I need the pre and post care, so to speak. I need the pre compression where I'm kind of deescalating before. And then I don't need it immediately after, but I feel a shift in my energy once the last person leaves or once the last dish is cleaned or whatever it is.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (08:42.017)
Yeah?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (08:58.009)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:58.796)
And you know, it's interesting. Sometimes if I feel like I've had enough with the socializing, I will start cleaning because it pulls me away from having to mask.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (09:08.569)
Oh, I so do that too. I do that too. I start washing the dishes or packing the dishwasher.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:11.758)
Yeah. Yep. Mm hmm. Yes. And you know, it's interesting. I think I had mentioned in that other episode where I was getting a phone call request at 10 o 'clock at night. I can't do I can text all day long. I can text an email. It doesn't drain me. It's like such a quick thing for me. But phone calls or in person demands a little bit of masking.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (09:26.775)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (09:41.111)
Hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:42.414)
And so even the phone, your tone of voice demands a little masking. So I think depending on my energy level, it depends on whether I'm up for it, so to speak. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (09:52.249)
Yeah, that makes sense for sure. And in a personal setting, do you feel like you do it differently? Obviously you said you haven't been to networking events and you feel like the interest doesn't hold you because there isn't that emotional connection. So I would think in a personal or more like private and intimate gathering, that wouldn't be an issue for you socializing and being more extroverted.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:06.998)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:17.006)
No, I enjoy meeting new people. It's I think it's one of the things I honestly like about podcasting too, is getting to meet and talk to all different people from everywhere. It's part of my job too. I mean, I meet new people all the time being a therapist. However,
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (10:24.535)
Mm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:37.902)
I tend to work with my clients very long -term. I just had a client graduate yesterday and we were looking back at his, you know, when was the last, when was the first time we met and we both were thinking it had been two years and it had been five. And that's not abnormal for me. So I'll get really to like that deeper level. And I think that's the high sensitivity piece, whereas HSPs we, we really do.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (10:55.161)
Oh wow, okay. Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:07.79)
like I said, crave that depth. But I will say when I have a brand new client coming in, I get a little twinge of, I don't want to say anxiety, but kind of anticipation of how's it going to go? Are we going to click? And then within the first five minutes, usually it feels like it's that that has released. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (11:10.433)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (11:30.105)
It's okay. And it's jelling. Yeah. I think one of the things that are, it's also kind of difficult for HSPs in terms of social settings is, you know, it feels so kind of rudimental and high school, but that initial kind of making the first move, saying the first thing when there's this group of people that you don't know, for example, the barbecue you get invited to, and there's this whole bunch of friends that you don't know. And.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:48.61)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:53.134)
Mm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (11:59.609)
how you navigate that or handle that. I for sure have come up with some strategies over the years because it's just not a situation I feel comfortable in, but I'd love to know how you navigate that.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (12:08.684)
Right.
Well, I think it depends. So it's interesting you bring this up because this Saturday I'm going to a neighbor's birthday party and because I very much value my space in my home, I'm usually not the first person that's going to become super tight with my neighbors as social as I am. So we've just kind of naturally gotten to know each other a little bit. I don't know. I think I know two people going to this party. And if I knew more people,
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (12:29.803)
Hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (12:41.36)
I think I would just go on my own but we're scrambling to find a babysitter because I want my husband to come with me because I don't know people and not I think it would depend on the group this group tends they're a little bit older than me they're not like we're not in the same kind of stage of life and so I think because I don't feel those commonalities I want like a
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (12:48.535)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (13:04.654)
Like an anchor. Yeah, like a person to be with me. Yeah. So I think it depends on like if you feel the comfort level you feel with the people just do you have a shared interest? Do you have a shared commonality? I think that can make a big difference too. So I think if you think of it that way, maybe one of the copay mechanisms is consciously trying to find a commonality.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (13:04.921)
A backup plan.
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (13:15.449)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (13:33.048)
find a shared interest. And so it's a very, I had a stint of two years of being a guidance counselor at an elementary school when I was getting licensed, which is very random. And we were teaching kids how to ask questions, learn about each other, find common ground. And I think we can almost take something from that, that it's...
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (13:34.073)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:00.558)
maybe just finding that common ground, it's okay to ask the deep questions early on.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (14:05.849)
That's actually one of my coping strategies. Like the first one is I don't go to social personal social engagements alone because I know I don't feel comfortable with that. My husband is, I wouldn't say he's an extrovert, but he can more easily strike up a conversation than I can. And I'm okay to take part in the conversation once kind of the initial groundwork has been laid. So.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:17.452)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:27.798)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:33.486)
Right.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (14:34.649)
That for me is a great, great way to feel a little bit more comfortable. And the second thing I do is if I'm meeting somebody for the first time or I'm in this kind of situation and I'm kind of fearful or anxious about making the first move and being the first one to initiate the conversation, I tend to always ask about them because I am genuinely interested. But it also I've learned.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:39.054)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:57.974)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (15:03.993)
is probably the easiest way for me to find that kind of commonality with somebody. Like, and you know, what do you do? Do you have kids? You know, you start with kind of the easy things and it kind of leads into the big things many times. And you learn things about people that you never...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:09.58)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:20.182)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (15:25.017)
I think would have known if you didn't ask these questions and it does create kind of an in when you feel a little anxious.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:26.956)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:34.382)
Can I ask you how often do you then share your own answers to those kind of questions?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (15:42.041)
This is the curious thing because have you ever noticed that people don't ask back?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:47.31)
Yeah, I don't know if it's just not a natural flow. Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (15:51.353)
Maybe. But that's okay for me. People love talking about themselves. And as long as that gets the conversation going, then fine, that's fine by me. But if they were to ask me, I would definitely reply. I mean, I'm not going to share my life story with them the first time I meet them. But if they were to ask me like, how many kids you have? Where do you live? What do do for a living? I don't mind having those conversations.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:57.006)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:05.76)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:10.318)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:18.414)
I think we just pinpointed something that deepens a conversation beyond small talk though. So if, for instance, you and I were meeting for the first time and I said, oh, do you have kids? And you shared about your daughter. And then I responded in kind with, oh, well, actually I also have kids. And then we're rolling. We've got this shared, I think that shared commonality piece, that's where more depth comes.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (16:25.623)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (16:39.193)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (16:47.225)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:48.32)
from so I wonder if there's something to offering up your answer to your own question.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (16:55.001)
Yeah, for sure. But also like being prepared. I think as HSPs, we sometimes tend to take things really personally and we live in our minds a lot. And just to also kind of pre, I try to pre -prepare myself for a situation where somebody just may not be forthcoming or just don't want to talk to you and to not kind of feel offended by that, because that's really hard for me. I would take that really personally and I feel like the person is just being mean, but just...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:03.062)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:17.102)
Right. Right. Right. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (17:24.889)
kind of preparing yourself for those kinds of situations. Because I think that's what also makes it difficult for HSP to socialize. Or for me at least, you can kind of feel the energy in the room. Like I would be very sensitive to people's moods. For example, if I walk into a party, I don't know anybody and I try to speak with somebody, I would feel this person is annoyed or...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:29.142)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:39.638)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:46.414)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (17:52.985)
this person doesn't want to be here, or I don't think this person likes me. And, you know, it's not going into the conversation of trying to put thoughts into somebody's mind or thinking what they're thinking. It's just, we do tend to feel these things as HSPs. So now you're already nervous because you're in the situation. You're feeling all of these emotions and moods and everything makes you even more anxious because now you go into the zone of, Oh, I need to fix this.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:57.196)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:06.592)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:17.452)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (18:20.377)
I need to make everybody comfortable. I need to see that this is working out for everybody. And you can just see how that all snowballs.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:20.598)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:28.59)
funny, it makes me think of when I go into a party or a space, and maybe one where I'm not hosting, but I could have an impact. Like if I go over to my dad and stepmom's house, I always am like, where's the music? Can we turn the music on? It's like, I feel like we need that in the space. However, I wouldn't do that if I was in just a general space.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (18:42.391)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (18:46.321)
Yeah
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:54.414)
But you said something that I think is so important. And it's about the fact that HSPs, we really do absorb, we truly, this is not just anecdotal, we truly absorb other people's moods because our mirror neurons are more active in our brain. And so the proximity that you have to someone in the room makes a difference. And so how this can be a useful coping skill if you go into a room.
and you're feeling the energy that there's maybe for me, it's if it's there's a really aggressive communicator, not passionate. I like passionate, but someone who's really pushy about their feelings makes me feel very tense. I don't, it's, it's, I don't like it. I feel like I want to barrier myself to it. Remember that if you're in a space, whoever you're physically closest to can have an impact.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (19:35.897)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (19:39.993)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (19:51.097)
Okay, that I can that is so true. That's for sure true for me. Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (19:52.428)
Right?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (19:57.056)
Mm -hmm. So moving yourself if you can to a space to someone maybe even another HSP we can pick each other out if you really start to notice the little nuances maybe the person who is Having a one -on -one conversation about something meaningful and they have kept the conversation going for a while and they don't
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (20:06.391)
Mmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (20:20.45)
participate in some of the other activities that might be your person, you know, and striking up something with that. Or if you feel drawn to someone's energy, go even standing near them and see what organically comes up. It might end up feeling more comfortable than trying to grit and bear the overzealous communicator, for instance.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (20:24.311)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (20:41.721)
Yeah, I also like to retreat a little bit and I've learned to do this over the years. I used to feel so bad about it because I used to think that if you're social, you need to be social, you can't be rude. But I do that now. If I feel overwhelmed in those situations, I excuse myself, I go to the bathroom or I go outside or I go fetch something in the car. And I just take those five minutes to just breathe.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (20:45.344)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (20:49.878)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:01.772)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:08.238)
Yup. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (21:09.273)
regroup, think about anything else. Maybe I, you know, say a few, maybe I do like a grounding exercise. Maybe I listen to two minutes of my news podcast, whatever, whatever it is. Maybe I just sit there and I feel so much better when I go back. I need those moments because those moments are my sanity in situations like that so that I don't overthink situations and I don't get too overwhelmed with everybody's emotions and moods and.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:21.632)
Mm hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:27.382)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:37.23)
Right.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (21:37.433)
head into that space of, ooh, I think I know what you're thinking.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:42.35)
Yes. And I love that you use the word grounding too, because there are opportunities. I'm not doing it now because I genuinely need my black tea right now, but drinking. And this is, this kind of brings up a double edged sword. It might also be why someone who's highly sensitive might find that they lean into things like overuse of alcohol and social situations to feel more comfortable because not only can it, you know, dull the insecurities or
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (22:05.335)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (22:12.256)
or take down some of those social barriers, there's an action with your hands and your mouth. If any of our listeners want to look up the homunculus man, have you ever heard of the homunculus man? It's a rendering of our cortical brain and how our cortex has more neural connectivity in our hands and our mouth and our tongue than anywhere in the whole entire body.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (22:24.825)
Mm -hmm. No.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (22:40.014)
And so when we regulate, we're most often regulating with our hands in our mouth. And so if you're in a scenario where you're feeling a little uneasy, it might be a good idea, I'm reaching for my other beverage, to have a glass of water. You know, have something that you can physically hold, you can feel, you can ground yourself into, you can continue to have that connection, hydrate. And then to your point, more bathroom breaks to be by yourself.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (22:44.855)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (22:55.961)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (23:03.737)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (23:08.729)
Yeah, and it's so, for me, it really saves me, but I've also learned to avoid getting into those situations in the first place. Like, I know I don't do well in overwhelming situations with many people. So if I get invited to something and I know it's gonna be like a huge party with many people, I decline. I just won't go. And if it's just an intimate gathering with a couple of people,
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:13.228)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:23.148)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:29.782)
Hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (23:36.377)
That's fine for me. And my friends have kind of come to know me as such, like they don't invite us really for big gatherings. I don't find that offensive. I see that as a huge thank you, you know, because I prefer to rather spend intimate time and just be a couple of people that I can energetically and emotionally handle. You know, so I just don't, I try not to get, I try to just...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:50.262)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:58.606)
Right. Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (24:04.217)
And this was something that I learned the hard ways, trying to recognize, accept and live according to your limitations because it's okay to have limitations. It's actually better for you to understand those. And that's definitely one of my limitations. And that, I mean, just saying that feels like I'm already feeling so relieved.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:14.348)
Mm -hmm.
Absolutely.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:28.846)
That's awesome. It's so funny because this is what I love so much about our sensitivities because they're so polarizing. When it comes to socializing, unless I am with a really, really, really good friend, someone I feel very connected to, the less people there are, the more overwhelmed I feel.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (24:39.737)
Mm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (24:54.393)
Oh really? No... Yeah, please do.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:55.63)
Yes, and I'm gonna unpack this for you, okay? So when there's a small, small group, I am so keenly aware of your energy and how you're feeling. Although I do prefer one -on -one counseling, so that's kind of this other part of my brain, but I'm more conscientious of filling the space, making sure the conversation is going. I know that I really need to kind of attend.
Whereas as you add more people, it diffuses the energy and I feel like, oh, you got that person. Oh, you're okay. You guys are talking. Like it's this, I'm always aware of people are having a good time, but the more people there are, it almost feels like the less responsibility on myself, unless I am in a room full of introverts. I will never be more exhausted.
than if I'm in a room full of full full of introverts, because then I feel this need to raise the energy to help the room and and really bring my extrovert energy. So I appreciate when there's other extroverts around to take some of the burden off of me. And I know this is all subconscious. This is all like HSP energy going. No one needs me to do this.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (25:59.929)
and be the extrovert, yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (26:17.463)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:18.87)
No one demands that I do this, but I subconsciously do this.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (26:22.969)
Well, your HSP does demand you to do it. That's the thing, right? So for me, on the other hand is again, I feel overwhelmed with the many people because I feel all of these energies are so overwhelming and all of these moods. And whereas it's a smaller group, I feel like I'm much better able to be.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:25.526)
Right, good point.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:38.284)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (26:45.145)
Oh, okay, I see you. I can kind of dissect this. I can work with this. I can give attention to this and I can make this work for an hour or two. Whereas if it's like a whole big group of people, it's weird how we see that differently and how you have to understand like what it is that you need.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:48.674)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:56.982)
Mm -hmm.
I know.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:05.694)
Absolutely.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (27:07.449)
But it's also like dating a little bit because I've just as you were speaking, I was thinking now about the last couple of years and we've never, we've been in a situation where we've had to make a lot of new friends and had to be like the extroverts to try because we are the foreigners here. Like we're the weird ones, the odd ones out, you know? Yeah. So, and we never make friends with anybody unless we've,
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:14.838)
Thank you.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:22.508)
Mm -hmm. Right. Special.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (27:36.953)
gone through the dating protocol, like we'll never invite somebody to our house first, or go for dinner. Like you first go for coffee, because coffee is only 30 minutes. And then if you connect, you go for dinner, because dinner can be like an hour or two. And then if it works out, you can come over to my house for a barbecue, you know, like.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:44.398)
Right? Less pressure.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:59.02)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (28:00.665)
I think we're so rushed in life and there's this kind of manual of how you're supposed to do things and I just don't think the manual necessarily works for HSBs.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (28:10.766)
I agree. I think that, oh, and you know, I think about too, if we dissect the difference for HSPs versus, you know, non HSPs are low sensitives in a social setting. One of the most helpful.
cognitive shifts I've ever had based on something I read was to remind myself in the social setting that only 20 to 25 percent of the people in this room are HSPs based on statistics unless you're like me and I gravitate towards neuro diverse people but
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (28:40.545)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (28:46.638)
And so not everyone in the room thinks as deeply as I do. Not everyone is hyper analyzing the scenario or these feelings or this moment because we as HSPs tend to project our moral compass onto others. And if we let ourself go, if I say, are you doing okay? And the person says, yeah, but they seem a little off. Maybe they really are just okay. Maybe they are.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (28:50.519)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (29:00.865)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (29:13.099)
Yeah, that could be, but my brain would go like, okay, so he or she needs a little bit of extra attention. Maybe something has gone wrong. Maybe I can do something to make them more comfortable. Like your brain just goes crazy in those situations. Again, why I avoid having too many of those situations at once, rather dealing with it one or two at a time.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:25.964)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:35.662)
Right.
Do you ever think those same things about yourself?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (29:43.961)
How do you mean?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:45.676)
Am I okay right now? Do I need any extra attention? Do I like the same, these really beautiful, compassionate things.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (29:50.329)
Oh, I never used to. But since I started kind of my healing journey after my diagnosis, I've learned to do it a lot more. It's actually been one of the biggest, I think, aids towards getting onto a path of managing my panic a lot better.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:05.558)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:18.476)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (30:18.617)
is being able to check in with myself. Like, what do I need right now? Am I good? Am I okay? It sounds so kind of probably silly or rudimental, but just being able to recognize, well, no, my tummy actually feels quite crampy and icky. And I'm feeling that way because my heart's also kind of beating kind of fast. I'm a little bit stressed. Maybe I'm not okay in this moment. Go for a bike ride, walk around.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:37.1)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:45.038)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (30:48.131)
in the woods or whatever. So I didn't I didn't used to do that, but I do it a lot more now.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:53.036)
Mm -hmm.
What about in a social setting? Because you were saying you can have those beautiful self -compassionate thoughts and go bring yourself to do something alone. And I think about our high sensitive listeners or even just introverts or people who just have insecurity about, you can have social anxiety and not be an HSP too. So this can also kind of extend to other folks who struggle sometimes socially. What about those same check -ins when you're in a social setting?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (31:01.495)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (31:15.063)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (31:25.056)
setting. Are you apt to do that?
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (31:27.225)
Yeah, I think I do those pretty well, hence the moments to break away and be alone because I definitely then do not feel okay. But I would say that, you know, having a good support structure is so important. And, you know, through all of this, through this whole journey,
Dr. Amelia Kelley (31:31.542)
Mm -hmm.
Oh, right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (31:44.79)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (31:53.241)
My husband and I have become very in tuned with one another and he's become very tuned with my needs. And when I start to maybe not look as well. So my first call would be, okay, I'm not feeling okay. Go out for a moment alone. He would probably realize that and ask me, are you okay? Are you okay to stay? Would you like to go? I'm okay. Let's do this. And the next time round, he would be in an intuitive space enough.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:14.878)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (32:21.465)
to be able to come to me and say, okay, you know what? And what I love about that is he'll never say something like, I can see you can't handle this, or I see this is stressing you out. He'll go like, I'm tired, let's get going. This has been enough. Like we don't need to be here. And that's such a rescue to me because I am, and I will admit that, only capable of looking after myself and asking these questions to such a point.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:30.574)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:34.254)
I love that.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:48.654)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (32:48.729)
And then I really do need intervention from some kind of support network. It's just so important.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:51.534)
Right. Mm -hmm.
You just gave me such a fun idea that I think would be so neat to do. I would love to meet, look at me, this is me being the social, like social butterfly wanting to meet people. I would love to meet your husband. I think it would be so interesting to do an episode about support networks or relationships or something, and for us to have our husbands on.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (33:00.759)
Ha ha ha.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (33:14.489)
Ha ha.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (33:21.625)
Oh, that would be so cool, but maybe I should just have like contract written in stone with you that you would not judge me too harshly. My husband is the most beautiful human being, but he is an incredible straight shooter and he offends a lot of people. But I mean, I think obviously he's brilliant. So I'm super game for that. He actually did come on for an episode on the old podcast on MyFiggiLife.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (33:36.11)
Ooh, it'll be a good episode.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (33:43.822)
Yeah, that would be fun. Uh -huh.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (33:50.713)
And he talked, we talked about my diagnosis with panic disorder and how we, as a couple kind of navigated through that and all the things we didn't know and understand and how we got to a point of communicating with each other and sending these signals. I think I told you about the code words we use like stress, anxiety, panic, but just how we kind of navigated that through that journey and how it feels to be on the other side of this.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (33:54.55)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:09.238)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:13.742)
That's cool.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (34:19.929)
point, how does it feel to be the person who is the support system, not the patient, because it can be exhausting and very draining for them as well.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:20.726)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:30.936)
Yeah, let me know what episode that is. I'd love to watch it or listen to it.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (34:34.489)
Oh yeah, sure. I'll let you know. So in terms of thinking about the social settings, I think it's kind of strange for us HSPs to be able to have a cut and dry solution that works for us. I think it's really something you have to feel your way through and test it. Does this work for me? Does it feel good? Doesn't it feel good?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:57.428)
Agreed.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:02.988)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (35:03.129)
And also to know when to just extricate yourself from situations. I'm sure that doesn't work for everybody, but the example I gave is I just don't attend big gatherings. I don't feel comfortable there. And I just don't do that to myself.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:11.022)
Yes.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:17.71)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:21.198)
Right, just like you don't attend big gatherings, I don't attend networking events or things where there's going to be extreme levels of small talk. And, you know, also, I think respecting that even based on the research, it says that HSPs need an average of two hours per day of unstructured alone time.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (35:25.825)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (35:30.807)
Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (35:45.249)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:45.934)
Meaning you're not doing work. You could be doing work if it's work that's fun and invigorating, but just open two hours a day. Sometimes it's hard to get all of that at once, but I think normalizing and knowing that it makes sense to have an energy hangover the next day after a big event or, or even remember I was saying that the pre the pre -con pre decompression, I did not sleep. I
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:03.737)
Oh yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:11.223)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:15.84)
wish I had planned for this better, maybe even honestly spoken to my doctor. I actually did not sleep the night before my wedding.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:25.273)
Wow, okay.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:26.722)
I had my two, my maid and matron of honor in the like suite with me, we're having a little girl sleep over. I was up the entire night.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:38.521)
Oh wow, I would have been dead on my feet.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:41.102)
It was luckily my adrenaline got me going back up, but that morning I did not feel okay. And I, you know, I did baseline things like melatonin. I wish I honestly wish I could go back in time and tell my little self like, go do something to plan for this. So thinking about how it's, it was normal when I looked back and I didn't know what an HSP was then. I didn't understand what I know now. I wish I knew what I know now.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (36:57.913)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (37:08.087)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:08.91)
I could have understood that there was no space to have that quiet alone time. And it's okay and normal to feel that way sometimes as an HSP or to feel that ever. And it's okay and normal on the tail end to need that decompression and to have, as I was saying, that emotional or energy hangover after it's normal. It's not abnormal. It's part of being an HSP.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (37:17.623)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (37:34.009)
Beautiful. And I think that's the perfect way to end the episode actually. Such a beautiful message. And also to share with our listeners, what are you celebrating today, especially now as we're talking about HSP socializing and other people and their energies.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:38.956)
Hehehehe.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:52.174)
Hmm. You know, I'm actually celebrating that I've had this amazing opportunity to create something really beautiful with Gina Cavalier, who we're going to have on at some point. And I think we secured an awesome publicist who I loved who believes in our mission. And so I'm really excited for the work. I love working with strong, powerful women. And so I'm really excited about all that, which we will certainly share all about on the podcast. Yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (38:02.553)
Oh yeah.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (38:18.841)
Oh, wonderful. That's wonderful. I'm so well today I'm celebrating that so many elements of my job can be so challenging sometimes, but then things like today happen and I'm so grateful for the environment I work in because I do make my own hours and I can move things around if I absolutely need to. And I got a call like an hour before our podcast started saying my little girl was sick and she had a tummy ache.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:21.738)
What about you?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:30.272)
Hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:47.854)
Oh no.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (38:47.961)
And I didn't need to ask anybody for leave or explain. Like I could just go get her and I could bring her home and we could figure it out. So I'm definitely celebrating that today.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:53.262)
Great.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:57.838)
Yes, yes, I love how you and I being in different places of the world or having completely different experiences right before we film. I was sleeping.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (39:04.505)
Yeah, true, true, true. Like you're just getting up. And she had half a day at summer or winter camp or whatever.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (39:14.798)
Yeah, I was ramming.
Dr. Dr. Jeanne (39:18.521)
And that's true. Okay. So please be sure to join us next time on the sensitivity doctors. We have loads of great episodes still coming up and don't be afraid to send us your questions and comments. We'd love to know what you think. Please don't be shy to tell us what you want us to talk about or questions you want us to answer. We love connecting with the community and we hope to see you again next time. Bye.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (39:41.71)
Bye.