Today, we are joined by Jamie Copeland, a dedicated mother of five and military spouse, who is passionate about managing ADHD. Her dedication to this cause began with her son's ADHD diagnosis. Now, Jamie works tirelessly to improve the lives of countless families, challenge the negative stigmas associated with ADHD, and enhance the standards of ADHD care and development within a healthy home environment.
Jamie Copeland shares her journey of parenting a child with ADHD and offers strategies for parents.
Key Takeaways
Jamie Copeland: Website| Instagram| Facebook
Dr. Kelley (03:11.876)
So, well, Jamie, I'm thrilled to have you here today. My fellow ADHD warrior who...
Dr. Jeanne (03:12.342)
Okay.
Jamie Copeland (03:15.555)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
My question is...
Dr. Jeanne (03:28.694)
Hahaha!
Dr. Kelley (03:37.828)
has been a big support to me in my ventures with reaching out to women with ADHD. And you have so many amazing offerings for families and parents who have ADHD kiddos. So I would love if you could help the audience understand what led you into this path and where did your journey of parenting a child with ADHD begin?
Jamie Copeland (03:48.483)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (04:01.635)
Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for having me. My journey began with my own son, who is 15 now and was diagnosed with ADHD when he was five years old. And it was kind of a whirlwind in that moment. You know, as a parent, you're just like, okay, so you've given me this diagnosis. However, what do I do with it? You know, and there was so much help for him out there.
Dr. Jeanne (04:23.414)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (04:24.932)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (04:28.419)
but there was not a lot when it came to me parenting him and understanding what to do. So at least from the doctor standpoint, when he was getting that diagnosis, so I just began doing my own research and really just diving in on what is out there for parents. And then I came to the point where he was in middle school and things just started to get even that much more complicated.
Dr. Kelley (04:31.972)
Mm.
Jamie Copeland (04:56.771)
with schooling and, you know, of course hormones coming in and all of that place. So, you know, just through the years, I've really just done a whole lot of research. I had to do research when he became a teenager. We're also a military family. So we move a lot and we know that change for ADHD is super hard. So I've really had to hone in with him and hone in on ADHD, what it's about, how to help him really cope and.
Dr. Kelley (05:14.34)
Mmm.
Jamie Copeland (05:26.307)
get through all of this journey and just love him through it. So because of that, it led me into this huge journey of like, okay, I don't want another parent to ever feel alone again. I don't want another person to ever feel like I don't know where to turn. And that's where my journey began is, okay, let me be that voice for people.
Dr. Jeanne (05:40.086)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (05:40.612)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (05:51.66)
And one of my favorite things about your message and you and I met when I was on one of your wonderful symposiums that where you were offering all of this, everything you're saying is your mission, you actively offer to parents and people who want the answers. And something that I really love about your approach is that you look at it as a strength -based approach and an empowered approach, which I've noticed.
In the time I've been counseling, there's been a huge shift in the understanding about ADHD. And even this new idea that it is not necessarily a disorder, but that it's more of a deviation. It's more of a unique set of skills and talents even, but that don't always fit some of the modern day molds. And so I'm curious for you, what do you believe are the most important strategies for parents?
Dr. Jeanne (06:25.558)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (06:50.372)
with children who have ADHD. And I know this will be unique person to person that you think really are based in that strength oriented approach.
Jamie Copeland (06:59.907)
Yeah, so when it comes to that question, actually, it can be multifaceted. It depends on where you're starting. Some people start, you know, they learn that their child has ADHD when they're super young, like I did, and then others don't learn until they're in middle school. So as far as strategies go, you know, the sooner you find out, the better. So I would point that out. Like if you see something or if you hear something from a teacher, don't be like me.
Dr. Kelley (07:06.468)
course.
Dr. Kelley (07:15.588)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (07:26.82)
Hehehehe.
Dr. Jeanne (07:26.998)
Yeah.
Jamie Copeland (07:28.771)
And I'll tell you a little bit about that. I just was in denial. Like, no, he's just a boy. He's fine. There's nothing wrong with him.
Dr. Kelley (07:34.756)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (07:36.406)
But what do you mean with hear things that the teacher says and see things like, I don't have a lot of experience with ADHD. I have a very young child. So one would want to know, could you tell me a little bit more about what were those things that you were seeing and hearing and that were triggers or ideas?
Jamie Copeland (07:58.773)
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so, you know, when he was five, he was in a Montessori school and he had a teacher who, she was a little bit on the stricter side, you know, and she was just, you know, saying like, hey, you know, there's just certain quirks that he has that are, you know, leading me to believe that he might possibly have something going on in his brain. And she was trying to really beat around the bush and I was just very like,
No, you're just strict. He's fine. You know, but you know, she was pointing out things like, you know, he he throws tantrums when I asked him to do something he is not wanting to really participate with the other kids. He wants to just go off and do his own thing. He.
is having a very hard time focusing in on the lesson plans, you know, right when he doesn't want to sit still and sit there and listen like all the other kids in the circle, you know, and I'm just like, well, he's just a boy. He's just got energy, high energy. But, you know, as he grew older, of course, and started to actually go to elementary school, there was just more and more of that. And I realized, okay, you know, and I had taken him when he was five to get, and they said at that point, like, well,
We could diagnose him with ADHD because he does fit in the parameters. However, he's still really young and you might hear that often when it comes to doctors coming in and talking about it. It makes complete sense, right? Because they're still young, they're still developing. However, I would definitely implore you, anybody listening, if you hear that, then advocate for your kid. You know?
Dr. Kelley (09:25.892)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (09:38.531)
because the earlier intervention that you can have with them, the better off they will be when it comes to success in their elementary schools and years and beyond. So those were things that I was hearing when it came to that. And going back to Amelia's question with strategies on top of that, really speak with whoever your therapist is or your doctor.
and really ask the questions, like all the questions that come to your mind. Ask all of them. Don't be afraid to. Don't just take what they're saying and just run with that because really you can feel very lost in that moment of, well, how do I help them at home? And that's a very important piece to the puzzle, which is something that I really wanted to bring to the table here with Strategic U, which is what I do. As parents, we...
Dr. Jeanne (10:19.766)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (10:19.972)
Mmm.
Jamie Copeland (10:31.779)
really need to be able to know like, okay, how can I come in and just really embrace them in this moment through this journey, see it as a strength because there are so many strengths with ADHD. Also understanding that it's just the way that the brain is developing. It's a different way of neuropaths going through the brain than it is with those who have neurotypical brains and it's completely okay.
You know, and just coming in and building them up. So, you know, starting at a young age, that really, really revolves around routine. Routine is so, so important when it comes to ADHD and them understanding it and staying consistent with that routine. Even if you are a family that moves often, you know, like we were. Find a way, you know, for us, it was just maintaining that routine no matter where we were.
Dr. Kelley (11:10.148)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (11:27.171)
you know, and that sometimes was clear across the world, you know, and you'd have to really start to like flip -flop his days, you know, but maintaining your routine is so very valuable and important. And then, you know, once they get into that eight years to 11 years, you know, really kind of building in those tasks more to help them understand, okay, this is life, you know, and life -building tasks. And then,
Dr. Jeanne (11:27.574)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (11:30.468)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (11:31.222)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (11:56.611)
building up their strengths at that point too, because as a parent, we all know what our child's strengths are. And we really get to look at them from a different perspective, a beautiful one -night -a -odd, and just see like, okay, you are incredible at loving on your siblings, right? You just have a huge heart. That's one of my son's biggest features. He has a huge heart. And I would just really encourage that in him a lot more, especially when he would be out with his peers, like, you know.
you know, his empathy was just huge. And so it's like, okay, let's build that up more, you know, and he was also very sports minded. He loves sports. So building in that, you know, importance of a team sport effort and saying, Hey, this is how we can play team, you know, and really honing that in with him, you know, and then I have another son now just
Dr. Kelley (12:28.42)
Hmm.
Jamie Copeland (12:53.571)
throw this out there really quick too, that is not super great with teams. And that can happen too. And they are just better at singular sports, but that's okay. Just knowing that it's okay that they are where they are, building that strength into them, you know, and then moving into the scheduling and goal setting is super important as well.
Dr. Kelley (13:10.308)
Yes, to offer a little bit of scientific support for what you're saying, a couple things I just want our listeners to really know. First of all, you mentioned the brain and the way it develops. And there is some research out there that shows that the ADHD brain does, in fact, develop at a somewhat slower rate, and it might take a little bit longer to reach full maturation. And so for that reason,
Jamie Copeland (13:32.451)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (13:38.372)
An expectation you might have of a five -year -old who is neurotypical might look a little bit more like the expectation that you might have of a four -year -old who may be a little bit more dysregulated. So this is not across the board, but this is just something to consider when you're stepping into your expectations for your child. And so to Jamie's point about meeting them where they're at, that can be really helpful in mitigating frustration. Another thing I love that you mentioned sports.
Dr. Jeanne (13:48.83)
Hmm.
Jamie Copeland (13:56.453)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (14:08.036)
One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone uses a physical activity or sport as a carrot. Like if you don't do your homework, you're not going to be able to play this sport. I just want to implore anyone listening, that is going to make your life much more difficult in your parenting journey because the structure and the physical activity and the dopamine delivery that is provided by sports and...
Dr. Jeanne (14:28.566)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (14:35.748)
the ego enhancing and the strength building is so crucial for the ADHD brain, which craves the healthy stimulation that the sport can offer. So finding a different carrot would be immensely helpful. And to your point about finding their strengths, rejection, dysphoria and sensitivity is so huge.
in people with ADHD. So starting young, like you're saying, and intervening young. And intervention doesn't necessarily mean medication, everyone. That's maybe we'll unpack that a little. It can look different for every child, every family, and every situation. So maybe if you don't mind, actually, could I ask you when you say early intervention, what do you mean specifically?
Jamie Copeland (15:29.859)
So personally, I did not medicate my son when he was that young. I was just very concerned about, and of course I'm a researcher. I was very concerned about the side effects of what it could have with him. So we really just focused in on the early intervention with the psychotherapy, as well as what we did at home with him and the importance and going back to even what you were just talking about with the sports and how important they are. It is.
Dr. Kelley (15:33.892)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (15:38.084)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (15:43.108)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (15:58.179)
highly important because they don't get enough, once ADHD, they do not actually get enough lactic acid in their brains. And that is something that's extremely important to help the frontal cortex to develop and to work properly. So, and the other part of that, what you had said too about don't dangle it as a carrot, those with ADHD are super, they have a very hard time with change, like I had said before, right?
Dr. Kelley (16:04.708)
Mmm.
Jamie Copeland (16:27.043)
So if you're saying to them last minute, like, well, if you don't do your dishes or you don't do your homework, then you can't go do this thing that you have planned in an hour. You're going to get a meltdown. You're going to get a full fit throwing. It's not going to be pretty. And then that just causes you more strife. So I just want to throw that out there with that. And sorry, what was the rest of that?
Dr. Kelley (16:39.236)
Mm -hmm.
Hehehehe
Dr. Jeanne (16:43.126)
Wow.
Dr. Kelley (16:47.012)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (16:55.62)
Well, I mean, I like how you point that out. And I would encourage listeners to think of rather than using like if you don't do your dishes, you don't get to go play the swore or you don't get to go do the thing. What would then support the child to succeed at the activity in that moment? And that can take a lot of energy and mindfulness and ability to stay within your body as a parent.
which makes me think of something that I really want to ask you because we have our neurodiverse listeners and our highly sensitives that come to this podcast. How can parents with their own neurodiversity such as HSPs or ADHD themselves cope with the needs they have while supporting children maybe in those tricky spots of, well, I don't want to do the dishes.
Jamie Copeland (17:21.475)
Yes.
Jamie Copeland (17:45.291)
Yeah. Yeah. So they are tricky spots in that moment and it does take a lot of energy as a parent. But I will say with HSP and ADHD, often you find that those are the parents that are actually perfect for a child with ADHD. I don't personally have ADHD myself. However, my husband, I believe does. He hasn't been diagnosed officially, but there's definitely traits there.
Dr. Jeanne (17:46.39)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (18:02.006)
you
Jamie Copeland (18:14.435)
And sometimes he can really come in and just really take over those moments for me and, you know, say calmly, okay, why don't we go at it this in this way, you know? So that's one thing is having a supportive partner that can just step in in that moment, especially with HSP. Often you'll find that HSP is really good at being supportive and listening in those moments. But then if there's some.
Dr. Kelley (18:19.876)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (18:20.022)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (18:42.883)
really loud chaos happening in that moment, right? You're still waiting for them. So having somebody that can step in in those moments when you need to take a step away is perfectly okay. And it's okay for you to take a step away. As a matter of fact, that's completely healthy. You're teaching your child in that moment that that is okay. And you're actually creating those healthy boundaries, not only for you, but you're showing them how to create healthy boundaries as well. Like, hey, this is overstimulating for me.
Dr. Jeanne (18:46.294)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (18:46.372)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (19:01.924)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (19:02.39)
Mm.
Jamie Copeland (19:11.139)
I need to just take a step back for a moment. You know?
Dr. Jeanne (19:13.846)
If you don't mind me saying, Jamie, you're so calm and so grounded, you know, and I can only imagine that if you're having those moments of maybe raised loudness and overwhelm, your son must be so blessed to have you in his life because I'm sure that's such an anchor for him in those times. And I really admire that about you. You're so calm and so, you know.
Dr. Kelley (19:42.628)
Tell her how many children you actually have because I was surprised.
Jamie Copeland (19:46.915)
I have five children. I do. Yep, two boys and three girls.
Dr. Jeanne (19:49.814)
Really? Wow. But -
Dr. Kelley (19:50.596)
I'm going to go.
Dr. Jeanne (19:56.022)
That makes it even, I mean, I just have so much respect for you. I just admire you so much. I think that you must be really such a gift to your children.
Jamie Copeland (20:06.069)
Well, thank you. That blesses my heart because, you know, every parent, honestly, and I think it's often that every parent will be like, am I doing a good enough job? You know, and I actually would love to speak on that a little bit and just say to those parents out there that are feeling that way, you know, you were made to be their parent. So that's the one thing I would like to say first off and.
Dr. Jeanne (20:08.566)
Hahaha.
Dr. Kelley (20:08.708)
Hehehehe
Dr. Jeanne (20:26.902)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (20:29.764)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (20:31.555)
Are any of us perfect? No, we all have our moments, but the fact that we're there day in and day out actually loving on them and trying, and you're here listening to this podcast right now shows that you are a wonderful parent. So I just, I want to point that out first. And I think that when it comes to.
Anybody that has a child with ADHD or anybody who's listening that has a child with highly sensitive, you know, I actually have my youngest son is highly, highly sensitive. He will cry at the drop of a hat. It's, you know, and that's something I've really had to work through myself as a parent because I had never dealt with that before. And I've had to learn and I've had those moments of like, am I totally messing you up, kid?
Dr. Jeanne (21:23.35)
We all do. We all have those moments. I've had them many times myself.
Dr. Kelley (21:23.62)
Hehehehe.
Hehehehe. Hehehehe.
Jamie Copeland (21:29.475)
Yeah, but I've had to learn, you know, just, okay, let me listen, let me hear you out in this moment. Let me let you get this all out because these are really big emotions happening in this moment over what might be this tiny, tiny little thing, you know, but it's just like, okay, you're feeling huge emotions about this. Let's talk about it. Let's take some breathers, you know, and it's the same, you know, as you grow older.
and you need to learn to take those breathers, you need to learn to get all of the emotion out. Sometimes that means going to a closet and that's perfectly okay, you know, and just taking that second, taking that breather and just saying, okay, I feel grounded, you know, I feel like I can go step back out into this now and just give a really big hug to my child, you know.
Dr. Kelley (22:20.068)
You know, something I love about the direction the conversation is going is that what we could be talking about are, you know, do these checklists, do these tasks, take these supplements, cut out these foods, but instead we're centering towards this idea of allowing the big feelings to come and to be present and to not necessarily have to fix the big feelings.
but to understand that the big feelings have a time and a place. I once heard this metaphor about assisting dysregulated children through the emotion train. You and your child get on the train together and you are going to go through the entire tunnel with them. And you're just the passenger and you're just the witness. And when you get to the other side, you'll still be there rather than trying not to let them get on the train.
because the fact is that if we don't let our children have the big feelings and be there with them as that grounding source, as Dr. Jean was saying, you have such a beautiful presence for, they don't learn how to have these big feelings as they get older. And I think also about what you were saying about asking for a supportive partner to step in.
I do want to just speak to our single parents or people who maybe have not even single, maybe they have a partner who works a lot. They don't have that extra support. This might sound a little unconventional, but I to your point about modeling, especially if you are a neurodiverse parent, it's okay to do the coping skills together. It's.
Right? And to say, let's sit down together. Maybe we can meditate together. Maybe we can walk together. Maybe we can do art together. Maybe we can cry together. It's okay to show that through the whole structure of your family.
Jamie Copeland (24:14.787)
Yes, and I will speak on that just a little bit. Like I said, we were military, so my husband was gone often. He did just retire his last day. It was last Friday, so... It's coming up on the 24th. No worries. Thank you for asking. But yeah, he...
Dr. Kelley (24:21.508)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (24:25.252)
yeah, how was the party?
Dr. Jeanne (24:26.326)
congratulations.
Dr. Kelley (24:29.156)
it's coming up, right? Okay, sorry.
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (24:37.219)
was gone often you know so another thing I would implore with you because this is something that as military spouses we did often was we helped each other in those moments you know we really just built a village around us and I know that that concept of village parenting I think it's coming back in ways you know but it's been kind of lost and it's something that's just super important because us moms need each other you know and even dad's like
Dr. Kelley (24:47.108)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (24:56.58)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (24:59.542)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:04.164)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (25:06.371)
You know, iron sharpens iron. Men need men too, you know, and there are a lot of single fathers out there too that are incredible dads, but they need a moment too, you know, and it's just finding that village around you that can really support you in those moments. And they can step in and just say, I got this for you friends, you know, let me help you here. I can see you're overwhelmed. And there is some massive power in that, you know,
Dr. Kelley (25:09.476)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:13.348)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:23.652)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:27.14)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (25:29.174)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:34.692)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (25:35.779)
It really, it just helps you to take a breath in that moment, I'm just saying. So I would definitely implore people like, find your village. You know?
Dr. Kelley (25:40.708)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:46.5)
Mm -hmm, right. And if we were to then angle towards interventions and things that do help parents with children, I had mentioned to you before one of my favorite talks on parenting ADHD was by the prestigious Russell Barkley. I love him and all his work. He is incredible.
Dr. Jeanne (25:46.934)
Hmm.
Jamie Copeland (25:55.652)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (26:08.387)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (26:11.748)
and really a pioneer in the field of ADHD. He had this talk where he was talking about interventions and that when we look at things like behavior charts and different goal setting and all of these things that are meant to help boost ADHD kids and teach them new skills, he had...
eradicated the idea that they're meant to change the brain. However, I think there's an idea that with behavior modification, you're changing the ADHD brain, which is quite possibly nearly impossible because we're dealing with a beautiful neurodiverse brain that functions the way it's meant to function for a reason. There are ways to optimize the ADHD brain and that's what these interventions are for. So instead he calls them
Dr. Jeanne (26:55.19)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (27:04.035)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (27:08.964)
props. And the way that he metaphorically put this was if you had someone who's in a wheelchair and they have a ramp that's supposed to help them get to the next floor. You wouldn't expect the person in the wheelchair to use the ramp enough times where suddenly they're no longer going to need the ramp. It doesn't make sense. Instead, it's a prop you put in place because it helps that person get to where they need to get.
Dr. Jeanne (27:27.158)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (27:34.532)
So if we were to change the way that we look at behavior modification with our kids, that's okay. So if we were to change the way we look at behavior modification with our kids as props instead of something that's meant to change our kids, how do you think that could relieve pressure on parents and maybe increase hope?
Jamie Copeland (28:02.403)
So when it comes to the behavioral charts, sometimes the children can see that as being a negative. So I like to say instead of looking at it as a behavioral chart, let's look at it as the positivity chart, like the strength chart, right? And you showed your strength here today, basically, and just really kind of going alongside it in that way instead of,
Dr. Kelley (28:10.212)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (28:20.324)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (28:30.595)
your behavior was bad today. So we don't get a star here or, you know, we don't, because that ends up, you know, and we know very well that children with ADHD often hear, what is it, like 10 ,000 negative words towards them by the time that they're like eight years, 12. Yeah. So it's really just honing in on staying away from the word behavior.
Dr. Kelley (28:33.124)
Mm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (28:47.008)
12. 12. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (28:50.006)
Wow.
Jamie Copeland (28:59.139)
staying away from the word, any words that are negative, right? And in this culture, behavior is seen as a negative thing. And what I am really trying to do with Strategic U is taking out the word behavior from ADHD at all. Because as we have just been discussing, ADHD is not a behavioral disorder, which a lot of people are really taught that it is. It's not. It's a different wiring of the brain. It's a different mindset.
Dr. Kelley (29:03.812)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (29:24.292)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (29:29.155)
And those people, anyone with neurodivergence are actually needing to be seen as extremely like valuable in this world. And they are, because you think about it, they think outside the box, they think differently and they can come up with solutions that those with a neurotypical brain absolutely cannot. And being able to work together with them is huge. So,
Dr. Kelley (29:40.132)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (29:54.275)
Just talking about Dr. Barkley, who is incredible and so appreciative in this world of ADHD and what he had said, I love that he says props and uses it as props, you know, and I'll stay away from the behavioral mindset part. And then he also talks a lot about the ADHD medication and what that can do for the brain long going. And like you said, we don't know, you know, there's not a whole lot of long -term studies with that. I'd love to see more, but he also,
really talked a lot around just bringing in that psychotherapy point and using that to your advantage to help your child to grow into a human being that is extremely successful. And let's face it, that can go with anybody in this world, right? When you have those tools growing up and understanding yourself and really valuing yourself, man.
Dr. Jeanne (30:38.934)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (30:43.99)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (30:52.515)
You get to grow up with a whole lot more understanding for yourself, a whole lot more just really appreciating this world, appreciating who you are and moving into that role of this is who I'm meant to be. So I would agree with him on that part. And then it helping the brain to really rewire. There's a lot of research out there on rewiring the brain. And yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (31:19.83)
I'm, I can just hear a dog barking. I'm so sorry to interrupt you.
Dr. Kelley (31:23.716)
Yes, definitely.
Jamie Copeland (31:25.987)
Two doors! Darn it. Do you want me to pause for a minute and go see if I can put him in a third door behind?
Dr. Jeanne (31:37.014)
I think he stopped now, right?
Jamie Copeland (31:39.171)
He did. He did. I'm sorry.
Dr. Jeanne (31:41.078)
You may start again. Okay, cool. Okay.
Dr. Kelley (31:46.18)
No worries.
Dr. Jeanne (31:49.366)
Sorry, I won't be able to edit that out and I think it's such a great conversation. There's nothing I would want to unnecessarily.
Dr. Kelley (31:56.9)
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, anything to make the editing smoother too, because then you're not having to make it right. Because I think that's what we learned.
Dr. Jeanne (32:06.742)
But also the sound quality. I mean, the recorded sound quality is always the best, you know, like editing the sound quality afterward. It's never the same.
Dr. Kelley (32:14.724)
Right.
Right, I think we learned a lot with the Levine interview. That background noise is the devil.
Dr. Jeanne (32:24.79)
Did you see his Deepak Chopra interview?
Jamie Copeland (32:26.383)
I'm really surprised that you're even picking up the background noise. This thing is supposed to take that away. So.
Dr. Kelley (32:27.876)
His D -
Dr. Kelley (32:32.9)
The Deepak Chopra interview, what was it?
Dr. Jeanne (32:33.034)
I was
Yeah, no, it was, I think he did it after hours. It came out after hours, but the quality on his video side was basically what it was before I fixed the editing. So it definitely was not us.
Dr. Kelley (32:50.276)
my goodness, hold on and let me text. I don't think you can hear him, but let me text Mariana and just make sure. Hey, just want to make sure you guys could either be upstairs or outside until 11, just cause I can hear Sally. I don't think he's as loud as the dog, but no, but still just in case.
Dr. Jeanne (33:11.094)
I can't hear him, no. So I'm curious about the medication. I think you mentioned that in the beginning you weren't pro medication and just thinking of this as a perspective from a mom's perspective, right? My little girl is six and she's at that stage now where small things that kids say are becoming sensitivities to her. Like she's asking, she has a little mark here.
beautiful, but now it's starting to become like, why do I have it? What can we do to take it away? Like these small comments, right? So I'm wondering, how do you have that conversation with your child? Do you explain to them that they need to be on this medication and why, like, does that come up? And I'm just curious as to how you navigate that.
Jamie Copeland (34:03.395)
So Gavin started to be on medication when he turned 13. We had tried it when he was younger. We didn't really like the side effects that he was experiencing. And at that point, yes, he was very embarrassed. He thought, why should I have to be on medicine? He didn't want to tell the school he had ADHD. A lot of just big feelings were coming out in him when it comes to this because he really looked at it as something was wrong with him.
Dr. Jeanne (34:20.694)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (34:24.164)
Hmm.
Jamie Copeland (34:32.931)
You know, and I got to just really look at him and just say, you know, there's nothing wrong with you. Sometimes we just all have a hard time with focusing and this medicine is just here to help us with that. And then I asked him questions, you know, like when you're in school, do you feel like, you know, you really do have a hard time focusing? Do you feel like you are able to really interact with the other students as well?
as another student that would be a peer of yours. I asked him just a series of questions like that that he would come back with, well, no, not really. I do have a hard time focusing. It's not easy for me to sit there and listen to a teacher because sometimes I'm really bored with it. And it would just turn into this conversation. I said, well, this medicine is actually here to help you.
Dr. Jeanne (35:20.246)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (35:20.484)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (35:28.579)
and let's explore this and let's see where it goes. And really the ballpark is there in your wheelhouse because I don't know how you feel when you're on these medicines, only you do. I don't know how they affect you, only you do. So let's keep that open conversation going and just figure out what's gonna end up benefiting you the best and just keep playing around with this, which as a parent is really hard.
Dr. Jeanne (35:28.694)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (35:42.244)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (35:58.019)
And so my heart does go out to every parent that has to deal with, you know, having those conversations, those hard conversations that has to, but we, at the same time, we get to, right? We get to take our emotions out of it and we get to be there for them and we get to really just love on them in a powerful way here, you know? And so.
Dr. Jeanne (35:58.71)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (36:05.924)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (36:10.02)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (36:20.502)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (36:22.755)
having those open conversations with them, absolutely. And then from there, we were able to really hone in on, okay, here's the medicine, here's the right dosage, this is really working for you, great.
Dr. Kelley (36:33.54)
I love that because what you just explained is like a 13 year old version of going through the emotion train tunnel with a four year old. Like you, and you said take your emotions out. I do wanna just witness that the emotions while present and very, very reasonable to have emotions about whether or not your child needs to be medicated or you choose to medicate. But I'm hearing you say,
Jamie Copeland (36:40.771)
Yep.
Dr. Jeanne (36:41.11)
Hmm.
Jamie Copeland (36:48.035)
Yes.
Dr. Jeanne (36:55.19)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (36:59.492)
you can come back to those emotions, but for that moment you're there holistically for theirs.
Jamie Copeland (37:04.835)
Right. The thing is, is that in that moment, I realized this isn't about me. You know, this is not about me. This is about him and making sure that he's set up where he needs to be and that he feels complete, complete confidence in who he is and how he is able to really focus in this world. So.
Dr. Kelley (37:10.788)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (37:26.852)
I love that because I feel like so many clients, parents I speak with, they get very focused on whether they are making the right choice. And I don't know if they're including the child in the conversation enough. So I love your example, because it is so individualized. And I loved your questions because often I'll have folks ask, is it the best idea? Should I medicate? Should I not?
Dr. Jeanne (37:39.446)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (37:52.58)
And the direction we're not going to go today is should you medicate, should you not as far as the neurochemistry of the brain, but more the social aspect and the behavioral aspect of whether to medicate or not. Because as you were saying, if there are interferences with bonding with your peers, if there are interferences with taking what you can to succeed from whatever avenue you want to go academically, if there is a block,
that long -term impact can be more of a negative impact than some of the side effects, which to speak to what you were saying about side effects, things like reduced appetite, irritability, issues with sleep, these can be side effects that if they are severe, talking to your doctor, adjusting your medication is very helpful. But there's one other little thing that...
It kind of makes me think of Tom Hartman's book where he's saying a hunter in a farmer's world. When people ask, why do we even have to medicate this? If you're saying it's not a disorder, why does it have to be medicated? And here's my thought on this. In this modern world, in this world we have, where we are sitting in studios expected to sit straight and still in front of a screen with lights, we're indoors, we're... All of these things are...
Jamie Copeland (38:54.275)
this.
Dr. Jeanne (39:14.71)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (39:18.916)
somewhat unnatural to the human body and brain. So there's a reason why we supplement things like vitamin D, why we supplement things like omegas, which truly we should naturally just be able to acquire. So if we think about this beautiful ADHD brain, I joke with some of my ADHD adults, if you could just live on a campground or in a farm or somewhere in the sunshine where you could move all day and let your brain do its beautiful thing,
Dr. Jeanne (39:22.454)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (39:33.046)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (39:49.028)
the medication would most likely be obsolete. But we're expecting our kids to sit and learn and attain information in these highly structured classroom settings. And so sometimes supplementation to help your brain do its best thing is what's needed.
Jamie Copeland (40:00.947)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (40:08.15)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (40:08.323)
Yeah, and I think that it's extremely, that's one of, was one of the hardest decisions for me to make with my son. Cause you know, typically I really do go more towards the natural side of things and just giving my children as much benefit in the natural that they can get out of this world. And supplementation is definitely one thing we do a lot of vitamins. And there's a lot of research out there as a matter of fact, with ADHD brain.
and what vitamins they are missing. And I'm not going to go into that today, but I do implore people to look at that. However, with the medication side of things, there is a lot to do with that. And Dr. Broccoli, he does talk about this, you know, with the medicines, there's a lot of studies in it and they have had it for quite a long time now. So where they have really honed in on the medicines that really do help.
Dr. Kelley (40:39.172)
Yeah.
Jamie Copeland (41:04.131)
the brain to be able to fire in the ways that it's supposed to. And, you know, there's something to be said about that. So that would be, I am not here to tell a parent to medicate or not medicate. However, I feel as a parent, you know, what is absolutely best for your child and to go with your gut. Have that dream team, you know, and I say a dream team, I mean the school.
Dr. Kelley (41:08.644)
Mm -hmm.
Mmm.
Dr. Jeanne (41:12.47)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (41:27.03)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (41:31.011)
the doctors, the therapists, all together where you really are feeling confident and comfortable with them and advocate, and at the same time advocating for your child, you're getting the best.
Dr. Kelley (41:38.756)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (41:41.494)
Someone's at front gate. That's me. It's me this time. Let me just unplug it.
Dr. Kelley (41:45.892)
What? it's you this time!
Jamie Copeland (41:53.314)
That was actually, that was a good wrap up on that part.
Dr. Kelley (41:58.244)
Well, I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to, I love your, what is that mug?
Jamie Copeland (42:02.915)
Austin, Texas.
Dr. Kelley (42:04.516)
fun.
Dr. Jeanne (42:04.694)
It's usually unplugged but my husband's in Ethiopia so I'm on bell duty but I have somebody else getting it for me so that's okay. Sorry about that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, please, please, please.
Dr. Kelley (42:09.572)
No worries.
Dr. Kelley (42:13.412)
What was the last sentence you said? Do you remember?
Maybe something about advocating, which I will just say, I love that you're talking about advocating because even if you don't have a partner, even if you feel like the village is not there yet, the more you show up and advocate, the more you're going to get at least that dream team that you're talking about.
Jamie Copeland (42:19.939)
Okay, yep.
Jamie Copeland (42:42.179)
Yeah, so I think it's Dr. Noreen Russell wrote a really great book on the dream team and the importance of having one and asking the questions that I cannot remember the exact name of the book right now off the top of my head, but it was a really wonderful book to ask those questions. So.
Dr. Jeanne (42:42.322)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (42:47.364)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (42:54.084)
Mmm.
Jamie Copeland (43:04.355)
that's where you really get the doctor to get your understanding. Like, okay, this parent actually really cares, right? This parent actually really wants to know. And you're also boosting their ego often. You know, like, hey, I'm trusting you here, you know, but with advocating for your child, not only are you getting the attention of those that are caring for them, but your child's also seeing that in that moment. And they're like,
Dr. Jeanne (43:17.494)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (43:33.284)
Mmm.
Dr. Jeanne (43:33.59)
Yeah.
Jamie Copeland (43:34.083)
Okay, I am safe. I can be confident here. I can be comfortable here. And that really does make a massive difference for those with ADHD because sometimes they don't feel safe in their environments. And as we were just talking about, HSP earlier, ADHD can come with various other things that can go along with it. Anxiety, HSP.
Dr. Kelley (43:48.996)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (44:03.971)
overcompulsive disorder, different things that can happen within ADHD as well that goes alongside it. And being able to really bring about an environment for them where they feel safe and confident, well, I mean, the amount of...
Dr. Kelley (44:17.38)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (44:25.827)
what that will bring for them as they grow, you know, it's just a mess. It's huge. So, and that's something I had to realize the hard way, you know, and so me being able to bring that to parents now, it's just huge for me, you know, to be able to say, hey, yeah, it's okay up until now, you didn't understand this because neither did I, but guess what? We still get to work on that. And then we get to help our kiddos to really just thrive in this world.
Dr. Kelley (44:28.484)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Okay.
Dr. Jeanne (44:35.99)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (44:38.212)
Ahem.
Dr. Kelley (44:42.212)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (44:48.036)
Right.
Dr. Kelley (44:54.)
To your point, it is actually not abnormal to see folks who are neurodiverse in the way of ADHD and then also be highly sensitive. When you consider that both are dopamine sensitive brains. So it is quite common. I see that a lot in my practice where someone will have a difficulty with that comorbidity. Am I highly sensitive? Do I have ADHD? There's a lot of overlap with...
Dr. Jeanne (44:55.03)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (45:22.148)
There's a lot of overlap with anxiety, obsessive thinking, especially in girls. A lot of the ADHD symptoms in young girls, because you were saying you have a boy, but there's a totally different factor with young girls who a lot of their hyperactivity is going to be internal and a lot of their kind of agitation or irritability or racing is going to happen in the thinking.
And so that can sometimes look like anxiety or obsessive compulsive personalities. So that would be a whole different topic. There are so many different areas to go with this. But when you, I know, when you consider though, Jamie, you know, as Dr. Jane was saying, you are such a positive beacon of light and hope. What is something that you are most hopeful?
Dr. Jeanne (45:55.062)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (45:58.838)
Yeah.
Jamie Copeland (45:59.427)
Okay.
Dr. Jeanne (46:01.718)
And this has been such an interesting conversation so far. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (46:17.348)
about when it comes to parenting children with ADHD and what we as a society are doing in this area going forward.
Jamie Copeland (46:25.635)
So I'm, when it comes to parenting, I'm most hopeful for parents to realize like, your child's okay, there's nothing wrong with them. They just, man, are they? And they know that, they can see that, they can see that their child is extremely brilliant. And just realizing like, that is a strength, pull out their strengths, continue to just really look at that and pull out their strengths.
Dr. Kelley (46:28.9)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (46:34.308)
They're exceptional.
Dr. Jeanne (46:35.99)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (46:38.244)
Ahem.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (46:52.867)
Can you get frustrated sometimes? Absolutely, we are human, right? Just take a moment in that time to take a breather and say, okay, how can I turn this around to their strengths to really just point that out in them right now? And then as society goes, stop saying it's a behavioral disorder, because that is something where we are once again really looking at this in a negative light. It is not a negative thing to have ADHD.
Dr. Kelley (46:56.58)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (47:13.412)
I love that.
Dr. Kelley (47:22.372)
Mm -hmm.
Jamie Copeland (47:22.915)
And it started out years, years ago, you know, and I think the first thing that they called it was early rain.
Dr. Kelley (47:31.46)
hyperactivity of the, I don't know, so I, yeah, I have to look that up.
Jamie Copeland (47:34.179)
Yeah, early brain damage or something like that. Yeah. And it's not, you know, we were all made and wired to be who we are supposed to be, you know, and we know that that's not it's not early brain damage. It's
Dr. Kelley (47:47.524)
I've got it, hyperkinetic impulse disorder.
Jamie Copeland (47:51.076)
Okay.
Dr. Jeanne (47:51.382)
wow, that's intense.
Jamie Copeland (47:54.019)
But they bring a certain aspect to them that helps them to really be our promoters, that helps them to think outside the box to problem solve. And just seeing that beauty in them, right? And in this world, for teachers and administrators, it's not their fault. They're taught and they have so much care in them. They're just taught that it's a behavioral disorder. So they've always looked at it this way.
Dr. Kelley (47:54.052)
Hehehehehe
Jamie Copeland (48:23.267)
Look at the executive functioning pieces of this. Start really focusing in that area and then building in their strengths. And you will see a massive difference in this world when it comes to ADHD. You know, and then with parents, communicate with the therapist. That is a huge piece right there is really communicate with the therapist. Of course there's HIPAA, but they can tell you what strategies to do at home that they're working on.
Dr. Kelley (48:26.436)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (48:48.684)
Absolutely. So anyone who's listening who would like to learn a little bit more about your offerings, because I know you also had a gift for our listeners, where can they find that? What is that? And where can they find more about you and your work?
Dr. Jeanne (48:57.526)
Yay!
Jamie Copeland (48:58.179)
Move.
Jamie Copeland (49:03.747)
Yeah, absolutely. So, Strategic U is our company. You can find that at strategicucommunity .com and on there you'll be able to download our Strengths Finder assessment and be able to find your child's strength or your strengths even as an adult with ADHD. And yeah, I'm Jamie Copeland and the founder and CEO.
And we also have quite a few affiliates that we work with as well that are passionate about ADHD, Dr. Millie Kelly being one of them. So.
Dr. Kelley (49:39.332)
Hehehehe
Dr. Jeanne (49:40.214)
That's so wonderful. And we will put all the links in the episode description in case you're driving and you can come back to it and just click on through.
Dr. Kelley (49:47.812)
Absolutely. Well, Jamie, thank you so much for being here. I cannot wait to sit down with you soon for my book event for the ADHD Empowerment Book for Women. We're going to have a lot of fun. So I will see you soon in the real world. But thank you so much for your time, for all the work you're doing, helping to support parents and children. And just hoping that everyone here walks away with some hope and some ideas and
Jamie Copeland (49:56.035)
Thank you.