Dr. Theresa DeLorenzo discusses the impact of menopause on the gut and the importance of diet during this phase. Drs. Jeanne & Kelley cover topics such as protein metabolism, the role of micronutrients, the benefits of soy and cruciferous vegetables, and the impact of diet on bone health with their guest.
Dr. Theresa DeLorenzo discusses the impact of menopause on the gut and the importance of diet during this phase. Drs. Jeanne & Kelley cover topics such as protein metabolism, the role of micronutrients, the benefits of soy and cruciferous vegetables, and the impact of diet on bone health with their guest.
Key Takeaways
Dr. Theresa DeLorenzo: Website | Instagram
Dr. Jeanne (00:49.954)
So welcome, Dr. Theresa. We are so happy to have you on the sensitivity doctors podcast today and to talk about such a really important issue, which is a question I think all of us have. Menopause, what is menopause? How does diet affect menopause? We had a previous episode where we discussed the fact that the gut is being seen as kind of the second brain.
Theresa DeLorenzo (00:56.404)
Thank you for having me.
Dr. Jeanne (01:18.05)
And there's so much research coming out about this. So we'd love to know from you just to kind of set our foundations for this episode. What is menopause and why does it affect the gut? Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (01:30.856)
In a nutshell.
Theresa DeLorenzo (01:32.084)
Okay, yeah. So what is menopause? That is a loaded question. So basically what's happening is, you know, women are so used to the secretion of estradiol, which is a form of estrogen that we have been getting mad at our whole lives since puberty, but, you know, the grass isn't greener on the other side. So that estradiol is super helpful in a lot of things that are going on in our bodies, such as
Dr. Kelley (01:36.584)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (01:49.25)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (02:01.332)
keeping inflammation down, so I'll go back to that because that's what connects us to our gut, but it keeps, it preserves our bone mass, it preserves our muscle mass, it keeps our body temperature regulated, it does so many things in our body and that starts to decline, the production of that declines. And so when I said it helps with our body's inflammation, that's where the gut plays a role. So in our gut, think of your gut as like a straw.
Right, so when the gut is intact and there's not inflammation going on in our body, the straw is nice and intact and there's no porous, there's no holes, there's no leaking. When inflammation happens, the gut kind of gets porous and it gets inflamed and the villi flattens so we decrease our absorption, we feel bloated.
and we start reacting to nutrients that we hadn't been reacting to before. So it's this whole cascade of events that, and then that worsens the inflammation. The other thing that happens is our mood is impacted. So serotonin is produced in our gut. 90 % of it is produced in our gut. People think it's produced in our brain. We utilize it in our brain, but it's produced in our gut. And in order to get from our gut to our brain, it has to travel via the vagus nerve.
Dr. Jeanne (02:57.41)
Hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (03:22.228)
And when we're inflamed from the decrease in estradiol, it's harder for that serotonin to get from our gut to our brain because the nerves endings are inflamed and they're not traveling as readily. While the estradiol is decreasing, estrone is another form of estrogen that's increasing. And that does the opposite of the estradiol. It increases our inflammation. It...
Dr. Jeanne (03:33.986)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (03:49.428)
breaks down our bones, it breaks down our muscle, it increases fat accumulation. So all of these things are happening. Isn't it lovely? It's wonderful. But it's not a death sentence. There are things we can do with food, nutrition, and exercise to help mitigate all this. But that's sort of what's happening. And that's why the gut is so impacted because the inflammation just impacts the ability for that serotonin to get up there. It impacts our ability to absorb nutrients. All of that stuff is happening.
Dr. Jeanne (03:52.482)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (03:54.152)
Lovely.
Dr. Jeanne (03:55.458)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (04:18.92)
Can I ask a quick question about the vagus nerve? Because I've never ever heard that the vagus nerve had anything to do with this. I know it's a feedback loop. I know it has a lot to do with all of our body systems, but I never realized that it had something to do with taking the serotonin or the hormones and getting it to the brain. So you just threw me off with that. Can you explain that a little bit?
Dr. Jeanne (04:19.458)
Wow.
Theresa DeLorenzo (04:21.78)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (04:26.108)
you
Ahem.
Dr. Jeanne (04:42.562)
Yeah. Sorry, sorry. Just before we continue, sorry, Dr. Teresa, do you have sounds on on your computer? Because there are pinging sounds coming through.
Theresa DeLorenzo (04:43.38)
It's the communication between the like
Dr. Kelley (04:52.592)
yeah, you might want to press the focus thing if you go up to the top. Do you have a Mac or a PC? Either way, if you go to the top, I mean, at least on mine, there's a thing and it gives you like a do not disturb. Cause I think I know trim, I heard like an email ping through. I really do want to know the answer.
Theresa DeLorenzo (04:57.588)
PC
Dr. Jeanne (05:13.698)
Or even if you have other browsers open, it could also be that. Okay.
Theresa DeLorenzo (05:17.076)
Yeah, I closed. I did close. I did close something. That's might might be what you heard. I closed my email just to make sure. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. I apologize.
Dr. Jeanne (05:22.69)
Okay. Okay. Yeah, that may have been what was coming through. Okay. Sorry. I'll just edit that out, but we're super excited to hear how the Vegas.
Dr. Kelley (05:28.84)
Yeah, no, I really want to hear the answer.
Theresa DeLorenzo (05:32.5)
So the vagus nerve is the connector, the communication between the gut and the brain. So people think of our gut as our second brain, right? That's a lot of things happen there. So, you know, when our gut is inflamed, it allows the negative bacteria to flourish. It doesn't allow the good bacteria to flourish. So that that connection is going to be impacted between the gut and the brain. So it's going to be harder for that serotonin to communicate and get to the brain where that's another reason. So our mood is impacted.
People who go through perimenopause think, you know, they feel like they're in PMS all the time. They feel irritable all the time. So those things are because of the serotonin not being able to get to where it needs to be.
Dr. Jeanne (06:16.61)
Wow. Okay, so inflammation is bad.
Dr. Kelley (06:19.56)
Hahaha!
Theresa DeLorenzo (06:19.7)
We need it when we get injured to help us heal but yeah overall inflammation all the time is definitely not a good thing for sure.
Dr. Jeanne (06:29.794)
And then of course, there are so many foods that tend to cause inflammation. So you don't want to be putting that into your gut as well, which is going to obviously increase whatever symptoms you may be experiencing right now. So we're going to get into that. And I have so many questions about those. So I also just want to kind of lay a foundation because I think we're going to talk about that a lot in this episode is the difference between micro and macronutrients, how they play a role in the gut.
Theresa DeLorenzo (06:46.164)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (06:57.716)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (06:59.906)
And what are the kind of food examples of this? Because we hear so much about that. That's what you need to be eating to be healthy, to avoid inflammation, but like, what is it?
Theresa DeLorenzo (07:04.212)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (07:10.196)
Yeah, so carbonate is good.
Dr. Kelley (07:10.536)
And if you don't mind, I want to back us up a second. So let's pretend you're editing right here. So you had mentioned perimenopause. Do you mind really briefly explaining the difference and what the earliest signs of that are? I actually read an interesting statistic about how millennials are the largest generation, at least in the US, and millennials are also reaching perimenopause. And so it's a big...
Dr. Jeanne (07:23.202)
Mm.
Dr. Jeanne (07:37.378)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (07:38.312)
push for understanding about what this is. So as someone who is nearing it or doesn't know what it is, how do you know you're entering it?
Theresa DeLorenzo (07:40.724)
Absolutely.
Theresa DeLorenzo (07:49.524)
So perimenopause, believe it or not, people don't want to hear this, but can begin between the ages of 35 and 45. That's the average of when people enter perimenopause. So you might know you're entering it when you sort of notice an increase in your PMS symptoms. You know, things like breast tenderness, more irritability when you're about to menstruate.
Dr. Jeanne (07:59.074)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (08:09.2)
Hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (08:17.972)
yeah, like when I go on a run, I'm like, gosh, before I did my menopause program now I'm like, okay, I'm good. But, so it starts a lot earlier than people, I guess, want it to, or, you know, you might notice irregularity with when you menstruate, when you get your period, when PMS starts, how long it lasts. I know some friends who, you know, friends and clients who will go months at a time without getting, or they'll get it every two weeks.
Dr. Kelley (08:30.152)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (08:45.864)
Mmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (08:46.036)
Of course, if you're on birth control, that's going to impact things a lot. But if you're not, those are ways to notice. Even if you are on birth control, you still will notice those irritability symptoms, the cramping, more joint pain you might notice. If you're a runner, a lot of my running friends will notice it's harder to recover after long runs and workouts, things like that. So just kind of like people think, I'm getting old. No, this is part of, you know.
Dr. Jeanne (08:49.41)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (09:03.048)
Hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (09:14.132)
This is part of perimenopause. And that period of time, no pun intended, starts between 35 and 45 and can last five to 10 years to complete and put you into full menopause. I know your eyes are like, whoa. Yeah, it's a long time, but there's things we can do. So that's the good news.
Dr. Kelley (09:15.752)
Hmm.
Hehe.
Dr. Kelley (09:23.656)
My goodness.
Hehehehe.
Dr. Jeanne (09:33.538)
But just also for interest sake, I read somewhere that it is a genetic kind of thing. If your mom and your grandma and so on were kind of prone to entering menopause earlier or having early perimenopause, that may also be true for you, right? And that's a long family history for me.
Theresa DeLorenzo (09:41.268)
This is it.
Theresa DeLorenzo (09:50.58)
Yeah, that's an educational thing you will go through.
Theresa DeLorenzo (09:57.652)
Yes.
Dr. Kelley (09:58.436)
my gosh, Dr. J and you and I are like in all the ways we're so yin and yang because in my family, it's very late. We start our cycles very late. I was very late into my teens until I started it. And I recall, because of what? okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, maybe we'll unpack that a little, but yeah, so I'm curious about that because.
Theresa DeLorenzo (10:05.428)
this is hurting.
Dr. Jeanne (10:05.474)
really?
Theresa DeLorenzo (10:12.02)
Me too, because of gymnastics. I was a gymnast, so it was silly. Not for good reasons, but yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (10:18.242)
Okay.
Dr. Kelley (10:27.784)
Again, this is like I'm standing on the edge of the valley listening and learning all the stuff in anticipation of when it comes. And it almost I'm almost like, gosh, because it's going to be later. Is it going to be worse? So.
Theresa DeLorenzo (10:42.164)
I don't know, I've never seen that correlation.
Dr. Kelley (10:44.296)
Hahaha
Dr. Jeanne (10:44.482)
So.
Dr. Kelley (10:47.432)
But yeah, you had a great question, Dr. Jean.
Dr. Jeanne (10:51.49)
Yeah, yeah, no, I just wanted to confirm it is bound to genetics in some way, right? So you're more, it's not necessarily gonna be that way, but you're more likely to also then enter it earlier than maybe somebody that doesn't have this kind of family history.
Theresa DeLorenzo (10:57.236)
Yes, absolutely.
Theresa DeLorenzo (11:01.716)
Well, I think.
Absolutely.
Theresa DeLorenzo (11:08.724)
Exactly. Yeah, my mom was about 40. I remember sitting at the dinner table and she would just all of a sudden get red and sweaty. It was like, okay, my lashes are happening. Yeah. So she started pretty early and I'm 46 and I've definitely been in it for some time now. So yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (11:13.73)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (11:14.76)
wow.
Dr. Kelley (11:22.504)
Mm.
Dr. Jeanne (11:24.354)
So taking into account now what menopause is, what perimenopause is, what happens in the gut and what gets produced there and same to our brain. Why is it so important to adjust your diet in this phase and when you're going through this?
Theresa DeLorenzo (11:39.252)
Yes. So the diet, many reasons. so the diet can, first of all, help to break down the byproducts of that estrone, which is one that that increases inflammation and causes all the things that we want to mitigate. it can up regulate, there's things we can eat that can up regulate the estradiol. And there's also things that we can eat that help to preserve our bone density, preserve our muscle mass and decrease the fat accumulation.
Dr. Jeanne (12:08.546)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (12:09.044)
So things that we want to do are, and I'm not saying eliminate carbs in any way, but slightly decrease our carbohydrate consumption and focus on more whole grains, high fiber carbohydrates. Simple carbs like sugar do feed the negative bacteria in our gut. They allow them to flourish. They don't. And then when those are flourishing, the positive bacteria are not. And that increases the inflammation and breaks down that.
Dr. Kelley (12:33.704)
Hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (12:37.524)
vagus nerve communication. Protein can help to preserve the muscle mass a little bit and mitigate some of the fat accumulation. And I want to just expand on this a little bit because there is such a push in the media for protein, protein, protein. More of a good thing isn't better. We still don't want to go crazy with protein. You know, some people are saying eat a pound or eat a gram of protein per pound. No.
Dr. Jeanne (12:54.594)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (13:04.258)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (13:05.236)
That's way, way, way too much. Too much protein is only going to dehydrate you. It's going to cause you to decrease or increase your urination of calcium, so that's not gonna help your bones at all. So there's a lot of things that can be, you know, aftermaths of too much protein, so too much isn't better. So about 20 % of our diet are one gram per kilogram, which is, you know, our weight divided by 2 .2. So that's not going crazy, but...
Dr. Kelley (13:09.896)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (13:24.904)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (13:33.492)
And then focusing on lean proteins like chicken, salmon is great, fish is great, all seafood because that has omega -3 fats that help to decrease the inflammation further. I'm gonna say that word a lot of times in this episode because inflammation is just the crux of a lot of things with our health, but especially during this phase of life. So yeah, so decreasing the protein, or increasing the protein a little bit, decreasing the carbohydrates just a little bit.
Dr. Jeanne (13:39.722)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (13:46.178)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (14:00.436)
and focusing on whole grains and also focusing on anti -inflammatory fats versus pro -inflammatory fats. You mentioned this a little while ago. Anti -inflammatory fat foods are things like avocados, seeds like chia seeds, pumpkin seeds, hemp seeds, flax seeds. We'll talk about those a little bit more because those are one of the foods that really help the estrogen shifts. Things like fish, like I said.
Dr. Jeanne (14:08.834)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (14:26.594)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (14:29.78)
So those are some of the things that can help. And I like to tell people to focus on what to add to their diet versus focusing on what to remove because that can be really, it's tough, right? When you say, okay, I can't do this, I can't have that, then that's what you want. So I try to have, you know, focus on let's increase these things and inherently you will push out some of those things that you don't want as much of. Olive oils, things like that. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (14:40.066)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (14:51.266)
So... So...
Dr. Kelley (14:52.968)
Sorry, I have to pause you guys. My son just got up and he's screaming, I'm up and the nanny's coming at nine and I think my husband left for his inspection. So give me one second. I'm just gonna hand him a banana and tell him to hang out in his room. I wanna know how protein dehydrates you though, if you don't mind. I wanna, cause I've never heard that. So just can you give me one second? I'm so sorry, Jane, this can be annoying for you to edit.
Dr. Jeanne (15:03.394)
Okay.
Theresa DeLorenzo (15:06.356)
Ha!
Theresa DeLorenzo (15:12.724)
Okay, okay.
Dr. Jeanne (15:15.522)
Okay. Yeah, no, we've seen it all.
Theresa DeLorenzo (15:17.012)
You guys have good editing if you can do this.
Theresa DeLorenzo (15:23.636)
I'm sure. I'm sure. Now, do you see, I should have asked this question. Do you see us or do you just hear us?
Dr. Jeanne (15:30.818)
No, no, I see you, don't you see us?
Theresa DeLorenzo (15:32.692)
No, no, no, I do. I mean, when you, when you have the episode live, like, I got you. Mine is not. The podcast I do isn't. That's why I was wondering. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (15:36.482)
Yes, yes, it's video and audio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to ask you something about this. it's only audio. Yeah. My podcast before we combined, my podcast was also audio only because the editing is just so much less of a nightmare. But now we chose to do the video element as well.
Theresa DeLorenzo (15:54.356)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (15:59.444)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's good.
Dr. Jeanne (16:06.434)
Where are you based?
Theresa DeLorenzo (16:07.668)
I'm in Albany, New York. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yep.
Dr. Jeanne (16:09.634)
cool, so you're on the East coast, okay. Okay, awesome. I'm so sorry. You guys have been seeing a lot of drama with all of these protests and my goodness. So much is happening.
Theresa DeLorenzo (16:18.58)
Hey.
Theresa DeLorenzo (16:22.132)
that too. Yes. A lot of things. Yeah, definitely. Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (16:31.266)
And your practice is in Albany as well.
Theresa DeLorenzo (16:34.58)
It's virtual. So I practice out of all, it's not, I should say it's between Albany and Saratoga. So upstate New York, but yeah, it's virtual. So yeah, I do have my yoga practices in my home. So I have a home aerial yoga studio, but then I have, yeah, I work virtually pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (16:41.154)
Okay, yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (16:51.714)
that's cool. Virtual is the best way to go.
Theresa DeLorenzo (16:56.02)
It is. Then you can stay at home. You don't have the commute and yeah, definitely.
Dr. Jeanne (17:06.466)
I want to ask you something about the seeds also that you mentioned now for anti -inflammatory purposes. I just recently completed the low FODMAP diet. I was placed on a gastroenterologist because I've always had problems kind of with IBS and it was brutal to do that. But...
Theresa DeLorenzo (17:09.3)
Yeah, that's a big one.
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (17:28.98)
It is brutal, it's low restrictive.
Dr. Jeanne (17:32.002)
But I'm so happy I did it because now I understand what was upsetting me and I can choose not to eat it. Whereas previously I was like, I don't understand, like I'm eating healthy. What, how can I be so sick? Like I didn't eat any junk food. I didn't, not that I'm into that, but like you're so confused because you're thinking the good things you're eating.
Theresa DeLorenzo (17:40.532)
Yeah, like, what is it? Right.
Theresa DeLorenzo (17:49.3)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And some of those things are the things causing the issues, right? Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (17:55.266)
I know. Yeah. Yeah. And it turned out that I had a real issue with lactose, which is so sad because I love lactose. I'm the type of person who drinks a glass of milk before bed every night. Okay, cool. Okay.
Dr. Kelley (18:03.176)
Solomon, here. How you doing? Be quiet during.
Theresa DeLorenzo (18:03.38)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (18:08.36)
If you want to leave the room to get something you can.
Theresa DeLorenzo (18:09.332)
Really? Well, I'm gonna have an idea for you. You just keep listening. I have an idea for you.
Dr. Kelley (18:15.752)
He's now in here with his breakfast because he said he was too scared to be in the playroom. So, but I told him no talking. This is okay. Sorry. Keep going.
Dr. Jeanne (18:20.642)
shame, okay. Okay. So...
So on the seeds, I wanted to ask you a question about that because you're saying that that's very good for inflammation. What if you're perhaps like me and your gut really does not agree with seeds? What can you replace that with or what can be your alternative?
Theresa DeLorenzo (18:43.344)
Yeah, so the reason the reason seeds are so good like flax seeds, well flax seeds are separate sort of conversation, but the chia seeds and the hemp seeds, they have calcium. So they help your bone health. They have iron, which during perimenopause, we have trouble metabolizing. We need more. They also have omega -3 fat. There's plenty of other source and I should, I would be.
Dr. Kelley (18:44.872)
Such a good question.
Theresa DeLorenzo (19:10.932)
remiss if I didn't mention magnesium. So magnesium is huge with our gut. Magnesium is used in over 300 processes in our body, but it really helps our gut health and helps to keep the inflammation down on our gut, helps that communication between the gut and the brain, the vagus nerve. So those seeds are sources of all of those things. Other sources.
Dr. Kelley (19:13.48)
Mmm.
Dr. Jeanne (19:15.106)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (19:36.308)
are avocados. They don't have the calcium in their iron, but you can get them other places like cooked spinach, cooked broccoli. You can get calcium on iron from they have to be cooked. Otherwise the calcium and the iron are bound to phytates making them unobsorbable. So, but the avocados do have the omega -3 fat and the magnesium. Chocolate has magnesium. That's cool. Chocolate is good.
Dr. Kelley (19:49.512)
Hmm.
Interesting.
Dr. Kelley (19:57.936)
So we're recommending everyone run out and get their Metaposil chocolate.
Dr. Jeanne (19:58.498)
yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (20:04.372)
Yes, that's right. Digest approved. I mean, dark chocolate has more. Dark chocolate has more. Peanut butter has some magnesium as well. Yeah. So flax seeds, and this sort of dives us into another conversation, but flax seeds do help to shift that estradiol, estrogen metabolism in our body. So they do help with the menopausal symptoms.
Dr. Jeanne (20:05.282)
Any type of chocolate or just like dark chocolate and the burning chocolates.
Dr. Kelley (20:08.456)
Good question.
and then.
Dr. Kelley (20:32.872)
Hmm. I love flaxseed.
Theresa DeLorenzo (20:33.236)
So flax seeds are a really good one. Sesame seeds too, I don't typically recommend because the S oils are inflammatory. Sesame, safflower, sunflower and peanut, those are all inflammatory oils, but sesame seeds do not as much as flax seeds, but they do help to mitigate some of the menopause symptoms. Flax seeds do have to be ground though in order to get the benefits from them.
Dr. Jeanne (20:45.314)
Dr. Kelley (20:46.024)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (20:54.146)
So.
Dr. Kelley (20:58.376)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (20:58.754)
Okay. And so a little bit about protein then you were saying that protein dehydrates or can, can if you, if you have too much, right? So when I was going through, I recently went through the low FODMAP diet. And one of the things that my nutritionist told me is that I'm taking in far too little protein because I'm just not a meat lover. I'm just not, you know, it's never been a thing for me.
Theresa DeLorenzo (21:04.052)
Two months. Two months, yes. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (21:24.322)
I needed to up my protein intake and I was put on like a vegan protein powder and I struggled because it made me so constipated and it caused so much pain in my gut. So that's why I was resonating when you were saying too much is also not a good thing. So can you just explain, does that have anything to do with the dehydration then? Is it because it dehydrates you, therefore you get constipated and everything goes wrong?
Theresa DeLorenzo (21:30.804)
Theresa DeLorenzo (21:40.564)
Right.
Theresa DeLorenzo (21:47.38)
Sorry, I'm sorry.
Yes. So what happens in our body? So we can metabolize about 30 grams of protein at a time. After that, we have to convert it to fat, but we can't use all of it. The nitrogen can't be stored. Like we can store fat, we can store carbs. They all get converted to fat and stored as fat, right? The nitrogen from protein that we can't utilize once we've used what we've needed, the nitrogen has to get excreted. So we have to excrete that by...
Dr. Kelley (21:57.288)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (22:09.314)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (22:18.74)
urinating it out and with it goes sodium, fluid and calcium. Calcium we want because that's good for our bones. It also helps with fat metabolism and fluid obviously if we're getting rid of tons of fluid then that's going to cause us to get dehydrated. So the reason these high protein diets are touted is because people are losing weight. Yeah, they're dehydrated. It's a lot of water weight. So it's a false assumption.
Dr. Kelley (22:19.944)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (22:34.626)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (22:41.48)
okay.
Theresa DeLorenzo (22:45.716)
You know, a lot of people come to me or will lament that, my gosh, you just can't get this amount of protein in that a trainer or whoever is trying to tell me to get. Yeah, because your body's telling you enough. Like this is too much. It's hard to do because it's not beneficial. You know, I'm such an advocate for eat what your body's craving and eat what you are desiring. And if it's too much, it's telling you something, you know, so.
Dr. Jeanne (22:52.45)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (22:56.84)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (23:08.2)
So can I ask you a clarifying question then? Let's say you are a 150 pound woman. I'm just kind of getting a general and I know you probably do do kilograms, Dr. Jean. So let's say you're 150 pound woman and you are not paramenopausal. How much protein should you have per day? And if you are paramenopausal or menopausal, how much protein should you have each day?
Dr. Jeanne (23:09.314)
Okay.
Theresa DeLorenzo (23:20.756)
Yeah, so you divide that by 2 .2. I know. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (23:21.346)
Yeah, I'm kilograms.
Theresa DeLorenzo (23:35.124)
Well, also exercise would impact that too. But let's say that, okay, so let me do the math. Let me be my, let's say, so 150 divided by 2 .2 is 68 kilograms. So let's say you're a non -perimenopausal, like just normal, you're not like a crazy runner like myself and you're not like lifting weights every day. So you'd need about 70 grams of protein a day.
Dr. Kelley (23:38.44)
Okay.
Dr. Jeanne (23:43.682)
Hahaha.
Dr. Kelley (23:56.712)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (24:02.792)
Okay.
Dr. Jeanne (24:03.138)
Whoa.
Theresa DeLorenzo (24:05.044)
I know, not the 200 grams that people are telling you.
Dr. Kelley (24:06.952)
Well, and I love the Dr. Jane had mentioned.
Dr. Jeanne (24:08.834)
No, no, no, 70 is already for me. It's like, what? 70? That's a lot.
Theresa DeLorenzo (24:11.924)
Well, that's a lot. Okay.
Dr. Kelley (24:13.032)
Well, and Dr. Jean, you were saying about the meat. I'm a pescatarian and I feel like all I gravitate towards is protein. I love protein, although obviously with a balance of fiber. It's like my favorite stuff to eat because if I don't, I feel cloudy. I don't feel present. Yes. I exercise a lot though. Yeah. So, yeah. Right.
Theresa DeLorenzo (24:18.036)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (24:18.242)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (24:22.996)
Okay.
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (24:31.38)
Really? Okay. So maybe, maybe, yeah, your body's telling you maybe you're not getting it. Okay, okay. Yeah, so maybe your body's like, hello, I need a little more, you know? It will caution you as a pescatarian. This might be off topic, but again, just with too much of a good thing isn't better. Fish, we have to be careful of, because then we can get too much mercury.
Dr. Jeanne (24:32.482)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (24:42.082)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (24:42.344)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (24:52.776)
I probably eat fish maybe two or three times a month. I'm more so a vegetarian who does a lot of beans and nuts and fermented soy and avocado. Eggs are my favorite, things like that.
Theresa DeLorenzo (24:56.276)
okay.
Theresa DeLorenzo (25:01.3)
Okay.
Awesome.
Excellent.
Well maybe that's why you don't feel them in a puzzle symptoms.
Dr. Kelley (25:15.208)
Maybe, I don't know.
Theresa DeLorenzo (25:16.148)
You're eating a lot of the things that I'm about to talk about. Yeah. So you mentioned fermented. So fermented foods, probiotic rich foods do help with the gut health and to keep that inflammation down, keep the villi intact, absorbing. So all that's really good for that. And I say fermented foods, not probiotic supplements. And the reason I don't say supplements is because we all have...
Dr. Jeanne (25:17.058)
Hahaha
Dr. Jeanne (25:22.21)
That's amazing.
Dr. Kelley (25:27.432)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (25:28.642)
Mm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (25:44.692)
a genetic makeup of what probiotic, what live bacteria are inherent to our body. And if you take a probiotic that has X, Y, or Z, and those aren't bacteria that are inherent to you, you could throw off that balance and cause more harm than good. So it's better. I'm always, as a dietician, I'm always food first. We can cause more harm than good with supplements. They're not regulated. We don't know what we're getting. And it can be tricky. We can get...
Dr. Jeanne (25:51.234)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:51.268)
you
Dr. Kelley (26:01.128)
Interesting.
Dr. Jeanne (26:12.034)
Mm. Mm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (26:14.036)
Again, too much of a good thing.
Dr. Jeanne (26:16.418)
So I think this also kind of leads us into the next thing which I want to ask, and that is micro and macro nutrients. Why is it so important? And what is it? Can you give us examples of micros and macros?
Dr. Kelley (26:27.912)
I barely understand this.
Theresa DeLorenzo (26:29.78)
okay. So macronutrients are what we just talked about, carbohydrates, protein, and fat. They're the ones that we need in the largest volume. Micronutrients, I kind of love micronutrients. They're the vitamins and minerals basically. So zinc, calcium, iron, all those things that we need. Super important without enough of all of them, we get deficiency symptoms with too much of any of them, which is why I kind of steer people away from vitamin and mineral supplements.
Dr. Kelley (26:36.968)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (26:44.546)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (26:59.86)
can cause a lot of toxicity, you know, and a lot of symptoms that way as well. So macronutrients, carbohydrates, protein and fat, micronutrients are the vitamins and minerals like zinc, calcium, magnesium, all those things.
Dr. Kelley (27:13.896)
Based on what you're saying though about leaning away from supplements, I've seen a lot of encouragement around certain supplements when it comes to menopause. So what are your thoughts on that? Because I do see that it does really help some people too.
Dr. Jeanne (27:23.426)
Mm. Mm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (27:24.34)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (27:30.58)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (27:31.17)
Especially calcium. I feel like that's like really intense. Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (27:32.648)
Hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (27:35.22)
Yeah, so when we take calcium in from a supplement, we can absorb about 600 milligrams at a time. We absorb it more optimally if we take even less of that at a time, AKA food, right? A little bit here, a little bit there. And I'm a proponent of small meals and snacks throughout the day, not intermittent fasting, shoving it all together, but breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, maybe another snack.
Dr. Kelley (27:50.952)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (28:02.996)
So when you take in calcium a little bit at each of those meals, you're gonna absorb a lot more of it than you would if you just take a supplement. So if you can get it from food first, that's better. If you, like you said, you have lactose issues, you might not be able to get all the calcium that you need from food. So then that's when you fill in the gaps with supplements. But if you can get things from food first, so cheese, yogurt, those are both probiotic containing tofu. We're gonna talk about that a lot because that is like,
Dr. Kelley (28:09.928)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (28:32.244)
Soy is one of the biggest mitigators of menopause symptoms, but those are calcium containing foods. Right, that's why I'm saying you're not feeling them, Dr. Koh. You are just helping yourself more than you even know, like I mentioned.
Dr. Kelley (28:42.504)
I eat so much, I mean I eat a lot of -
Dr. Jeanne (28:46.27)
And I eat none of that again because that was lactose and soy were my two things that I couldn't do. Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (28:52.824)
my goodness, we're a case study right here.
Theresa DeLorenzo (28:53.044)
you are. So other sources of calcium, cooked spinach, cooked broccoli, beans, nuts, seeds. Yeah. And you can't eat any of that. Yes. That's why you're having such a good time. Now I will say that the plant sources of calcium, like the spinach, the broccoli, the beans, the nuts, the seeds, it helps the absorption of the calcium if you consume a source of vitamin C with it. Like.
Dr. Kelley (29:02.888)
You are mentioning everything I love to eat, everything.
Dr. Jeanne (29:05.634)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (29:08.552)
Such a good time.
Theresa DeLorenzo (29:22.548)
Tomatoes, peppers, strawberries, blueberries. Okay, you are just good to go. You're the perfect picture of menopause health.
Dr. Kelley (29:24.648)
More of my favorites, yes.
Dr. Jeanne (29:26.914)
Yeah, I also love all of those.
Dr. Jeanne (29:31.778)
hahahaha
Dr. Kelley (29:33.064)
Now I'm having to live up to that. I have a piece of cake every once in a while.
Theresa DeLorenzo (29:36.244)
Yeah, yeah. No pressure.
As you should, as you should, so do I. Yeah, so does that sort of answer the question? Yeah, so, you know...
Dr. Jeanne (29:42.146)
Ha ha ha.
Dr. Jeanne (29:49.474)
Yeah. So if I were just to kind of like put it out there for our audience, what you're saying is the macronutrients are the things that we need the most of. And this would be sources of protein like meat, eggs, things like that. Carbohydrates, which would be like whole grain breads. And what was the other macro? Fats, but healthy fats, right? Like omega -3, sixes and so on.
Theresa DeLorenzo (30:08.532)
Yes. Potatoes, vegetables, fat.
Thanks.
Dr. Jeanne (30:16.77)
The micronutrients is what you would get in like spinach where you can get some of your iron, maybe even, I don't know. I think there's zinc in spinach, but I'm not sure. So that's kind of how you then put it out for yourself, the macros and the micros and how they contribute kind of to a balanced diet, giving you everything that you need, right? So when we're looking at perimenopause even,
Theresa DeLorenzo (30:22.516)
Calcium, magnesium, a tiny bit. Yeah, there's a little bit. Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (30:26.12)
Mm -hmm
Dr. Jeanne (30:43.778)
both menopause and perimenopause, I think some things become kind of more of an issue to you as you age, right? One of these is bone density and bone health. What can we do, except we've spoken about the calcium supplements now, in addition to that or easy calcium rich foods to increase our bone density or to keep our bone density and bone health, bones healthy.
Theresa DeLorenzo (30:52.276)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (31:08.756)
Yeah. So, those calcium rich foods that we talked about, I'll repeat just once more, not too much protein, but enough and exercise. So exercise is a huge way to preserve our muscle mass, decrease that fat accumulation and to help our bone density. So when I say exercise bone, you know, bone building exercise, so lifting weights, strength training,
Dr. Jeanne (31:15.81)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (31:23.394)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (31:33.314)
Mm. Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (31:37.172)
things that you put pressure on your joints, not to say you shouldn't swim or run, but those don't do it as much. Yeah, it's like the first few minutes, but then it becomes so repetitive. You have to change it up. I'm a marathon runner, so this is like horrible news to me, but I hate strength training. I'm a yogi and a runner, so I have to try extra hard and I hate milk. So my bones are unfortunately my...
Dr. Jeanne (31:39.522)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (31:44.296)
running even though you have the impact.
Dr. Kelley (31:53.736)
interesting.
Dr. Jeanne (31:55.01)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (31:59.842)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (32:03.028)
Hehe. Hehe.
Dr. Jeanne (32:04.994)
I don't love it, but I do strength training three times a week and then I ride bicycle twice a week and the rest of the time I do yoga. So it's kind of a good mix.
Theresa DeLorenzo (32:12.788)
Yeah. I like to say my yoga is, yeah, that's a great mix. Yeah. So mixing it up, so changing direction. So my, I have a very good friend who's a runner also. That's how I know her, but she's a physical therapist and she does a lot with bone health. And so she gives us plyometric exercises where you're changing direction and jumping from the top to the bottom, you know, up, down, sideways, things like that, where you're changing it up for your bones to stimulate that, that bone growth and bone.
Dr. Jeanne (32:41.378)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (32:42.376)
kind of emulating the playful way that children would move. Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (32:42.644)
President.
Dr. Jeanne (32:44.194)
So.
Theresa DeLorenzo (32:46.42)
Yes, I know we forget how to be kids. You know, we forget to eat mindfully. They just eat when they want and we just get so regimented and we just get so far from what our bodies are asking us for that it's yes, eat and move like a kid. Bottom line. No, no, no. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (32:47.202)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (33:00.476)
Maybe not the candy quite as much, but.
Dr. Jeanne (33:04.13)
No, no, no, no, no. So another thing that we tend to pay more attention to is, and this actually just happens with age naturally, but I'm sure perimenopause and menopause makes it a little worse. And that's collagen, because when we start losing collagen, collagen does many things in the body. But one of the things that I think we see the most is when your fine lines and wrinkles tend to be staying a little longer.
Dr. Kelley (33:31.816)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (33:32.002)
becoming more permanent friends.
Theresa DeLorenzo (33:33.94)
Yeah, my take on that is, you know, eating a very varied diet and not just taking collagen. I know some people like to do that. I, again, just think if you're eating protein containing foods, you're gonna get that. You're gonna get that.
Dr. Jeanne (33:41.794)
Mmm.
Dr. Jeanne (33:47.362)
And that's what a lot of people don't understand, right? You need protein in order to build collagen. You can't actually make that collagen without the protein. Okay.
Theresa DeLorenzo (33:52.18)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (33:54.544)
Hmm. Hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (33:55.796)
Right, right. And another way to keep the wrinkles away, I do aerial yoga, you're hanging upside down, the blood flow, it's just such a great way to preserve that. My clients make fun of me because I always come back to yoga and they're like, you think yoga is the answer for everything? I'm like, it kind of is. Beans, nuts, seeds, and yoga is pretty much the answer. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (34:02.722)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (34:05.256)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (34:14.44)
Heheheheh
Dr. Jeanne (34:14.722)
So, you know, I know this is a very confusing topic for many people. And I think many of us are kind of in the space where we feel so demotivated when we hear about dietary changes, lifestyle changes, because there seems to be so many opinions about it and everything is such a long and complicated change. If you could give one practical tip to our audience members that they can implement today, an easy tip for.
Theresa DeLorenzo (34:33.108)
Yeah, I'm gonna go.
Dr. Jeanne (34:44.098)
really helping themselves through changing their diet during this phase of perimenopause and menopause. What would that be?
Theresa DeLorenzo (34:52.596)
Well, I would say eating more soy, if you can tolerate it, sorry, because that does help to up regulate the estradiol. So soy milk, that milk that you liked to have before bed, if you have a glass of soy milk, that does help to mitigate the symptoms and increasing fruits and vegetables. So cruciferous vegetables help to break down the estrone, resveratrol, things, you know, fruits and vegetables, basically berries, all those things are going to help.
Dr. Jeanne (34:58.306)
It's okay.
Dr. Kelley (35:19.4)
as verta wine.
Theresa DeLorenzo (35:21.012)
Exactly, yes.
Dr. Jeanne (35:21.762)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (35:23.976)
Can I ask you two questions about your advice though? Because although I'm a picture of menopausal dietary health, I guess, I also have thyroid disease. And I've known that nightshades and soy sometimes are pointed at as being adverse to that. So I get very confused sometimes, like how to take all the different considerations.
Theresa DeLorenzo (35:34.324)
Mmm.
Dr. Jeanne (35:41.538)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (35:49.46)
With the thyroid, the soy just decreases the absorption of the medication. So you just can't take it within the same hour. But having soy in a diet is fine. As long as like, say you take your Synthroid or whatever medication you're taking in the morning and then you're having soy milk at night, totally fine. Or you're having tofu with dinner or lunch, that's fine. And then...
Dr. Kelley (35:59.528)
okay.
Dr. Kelley (36:05.384)
Mm -hmm.
great. Yeah, because you're not supposed to take the medication within an hour of eating really anyway. Right.
Theresa DeLorenzo (36:16.244)
So you're good. Yeah, so that's good. So just have it later in the day. And I think for people who don't like, you know, tofu is like this taboo. People don't like it. If you blend it into things, people don't even know it's there. I do too. I love it. I make this buffalo tofu dip and people are like, this chicken dip is great. I'm like, mm -hmm. Not chicken, but okay. Soy milk, if you don't like to drink it, you can.
Dr. Kelley (36:26.248)
I love tofu.
Dr. Kelley (36:33.256)
Hehehehe.
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (36:40.084)
Use it in things, use it in cream soups, use it to cook with, and then you don't, you know, and the flax seeds too, those are another thing that help mitigate the symptoms. So those are three big ones. And cruciferous vegetables, so things like Brussels sprouts, cabbage, broccoli, radishes, rutabaga, all of those, spinach, we mentioned spinach again, spinach is definitely a superfood. So those help to break down the estrone, upregulates the mestradiol, and decrease the inflammation associated with all of that.
Dr. Jeanne (37:02.178)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (37:10.152)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (37:10.338)
So what happens then if you are in my position where you can't stomach soy and like, you know, from we, we spoke about the low FODMAP diet in another episode, but when I'm saying that I did badly on the soy, I mean, I couldn't even tolerate the first day's dose and it doesn't just relate to soy then, right? It relates to all kinds of beans, everything kind of that grows in a pod. So what do I do then? Because...
Dr. Kelley (37:28.744)
Mmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (37:29.044)
Mmm, okay. So that's gonna do more harm than good for you. Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (37:38.9)
Can you tolerate those cruciferous vegetables that I mentioned? Like spinach, broccoli, cabbage, Brussels sprouts? Okay, so then I would focus on the things that you can do and do more of them. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (37:42.626)
which is the spinach, the broccoli that I have almost on a daily basis. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (37:52.488)
Mm.
Dr. Jeanne (37:52.802)
Okay, okay. This was so interesting. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us and for explaining everything that we did not know about this stage in our lives.
Dr. Kelley (38:03.176)
I know there were certain things that I had not heard. So that was that's always exciting.
Theresa DeLorenzo (38:03.54)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (38:07.778)
Yeah.
Theresa DeLorenzo (38:08.372)
And I do, I just want to mention, I do a program where we kind of introduce one of these components each week. And people find that super helpful. They get like a workbook that kind of tells them why, gives them some recipes. Okay, let's just focus on one thing this week. And so it's eight weeks long. I'm starting a second cohort in June because everyone was kind of blown away with how effective just changing their diet was. Not focusing on let's remove eight to a million things, but focusing on things that.
Dr. Kelley (38:15.656)
Mmm.
Dr. Jeanne (38:15.938)
cool!
Dr. Kelley (38:23.72)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (38:31.65)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (38:31.752)
Mm -hmm.
Theresa DeLorenzo (38:37.524)
were adding to our diet and they were like, whoa, this stuff really helps. So yeah, menopause mayhem, because that's what it feels like. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (38:43.138)
cool.
So, but leading from that, where can our audience find you? Where can they find this program? Where can they go to? And what would you like them to know?
Dr. Kelley (38:46.44)
love the name.
Theresa DeLorenzo (38:53.588)
Yeah.
So my website is nutrition -for -opforoptimalperformance .com and you can find the menopause mayhem program under the nutrition tab on the website. There's tons of recipes, there's yoga classes, all kinds of things, yoga recordings. And you know, I work with people one -on -one, I work with people in group settings, kind of variety of different approaches. So...
That is where I'm located. I'm on Instagram, Dr. Teresa DiLorenzo, or no, it's Teresa DiLorenzo Nutrition, sorry. And yeah, so I post lots of stuff there as well.
Dr. Kelley (39:27.88)
Hehehehe.
Dr. Jeanne (39:29.026)
Hahaha.
Dr. Jeanne (39:32.898)
And we'll put all of those links in the episode description for you below. Thank you so much for joining us today. And we'll all be on a healthier perimenopausal menopause journey, I'm sure. Thank you. Bye. Thank you so much. That was amazing. I'm so.
Theresa DeLorenzo (39:35.956)
Awesome. Thank you.